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Architeuthis
KVRAF
 
2873 posts since 27 Jan, 2006, from Phoenix, AZ

Postby Architeuthis; Mon May 08, 2017 8:26 am Re: Antialiasing technique using distortion/dithering (Perfect Synthesis part 3)

stratum wrote:May I humbly ask, how that framework is going to help you to create new sounds easily if the basic sound design method is brute force experimentation?


Gotta love brute force experimentation... :love: Actually, I'm no skilled mathematician, most sound designers and composers are probably not either, so you can look at brute force experimentation in bad light or the advantage that it gives people like me who suck at DSP.

What is lacking in my current tools is the ability to precisely couple parameters (one example: controlling the filter cutoff in relation to oscillator feedback amount). I'm more or less done with my brute for experimentation for now. I'm just waiting to reap the benefits of what I've learned, I'm waiting for a feature-rich control scheme.

It goes like this: You tweak parameters for an hour and you hit a sweet spot. You then fine tune some more parameters and you get a "sweet range". That range is limited until you exercise precise control over how parameters change against other parameters. The cool thing is that you could build "quirks" into your patch by having parameters go to strange values at specific points, like a purposeful glitch to add nuance a la analog synth.

When it comes this stuff, one patch may be an entire instrument/synthesizer/fx unit of its own if the setup is complex and tweakable enough.
stratum
KVRian
 
1285 posts since 29 May, 2012

Postby stratum; Mon May 08, 2017 8:49 am Re: Antialiasing technique using distortion/dithering (Perfect Synthesis part 3)

Such things exist in the literature, perhaps you can find some info if you search.
Here is one http://pyragas.pfi.lt/pdffiles/2005/ejp05.pdf There is no formulation of the sort you seek in the paper, but it was interesting to see that an analog version of the method is implementable.
~stratum~
stratum
KVRian
 
1285 posts since 29 May, 2012

Postby stratum; Mon May 08, 2017 11:23 am Re: Antialiasing technique using distortion/dithering (Perfect Synthesis part 3)

~stratum~
ENVIRON
KVRer
 
11 posts since 4 Feb, 2017

Postby ENVIRON; Mon May 08, 2017 1:06 pm Re: Antialiasing technique using distortion/dithering (Perfect Synthesis part 3)

I think a macro-based system would work really well for this. You could provide the user with a front panel full of macros, and let them get into the nitty-gritty individual variables by assigning macros to tweak groups of them. So someone pulling up someone else's patch could reach for the "resonance" knob and expect a resonant peak to appear somewhere without plumbing the depths of the chaotic system.

That, or a sort of modular layout where predefined objects can talk to each other, but each one has a predefined selection of controls associated with it.
kmonkey
KVRAF
 
3707 posts since 17 Aug, 2004

Postby kmonkey; Mon May 08, 2017 1:28 pm Re: Antialiasing technique using distortion/dithering (Perfect Synthesis part 3)

Your attempt (at least videos) remind me of something Reaktor is capable for decades.
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Architeuthis
KVRAF
 
2873 posts since 27 Jan, 2006, from Phoenix, AZ

Postby Architeuthis; Mon May 08, 2017 2:03 pm Re: Antialiasing technique using distortion/dithering (Perfect Synthesis part 3)

kmonkey wrote:Your attempt (at least videos) remind me of something Reaktor is capable for decades.
:shrug: I made no claim of discovering this... I call it novel in more of the "interesting" sense, not the "new" sense. I think it is something that hasn't been explored as much as the subtractive and FM paradigms, which is silly, because chaos synthesis is extremely promising.

ENVIRON wrote:I think a macro-based system would work really well for this.

That is precisely the plan! Yes, I eventually want to offer this to a wide audience as well, exposing or hiding coupled controls as the user desires.


stratum wrote:Have you seen this? http://jamesnsears.com/2004/12/chuas_oscillator_in_musical_ap.php

This describes the properties of the mentioned oscillator https://people.eecs.berkeley.edu/~chua/ ... ivka94.pdf

Read/skimmed some of the content, but I've not developed the skill of reading scientific papers. I didn't see much in terms of the musical application described in the first link. The scientific paper seems to focus on different chaotic states and behaviors, again could not find much in musical/practical advice. Is there a specific item of discussion that'd you'd like to draw attention to?
xoxos
Mr Entertainment
 
12056 posts since 29 Apr, 2002, from i might peeramid

Postby xoxos; Mon May 08, 2017 3:28 pm Re: Antialiasing technique using distortion/dithering (Perfect Synthesis part 3)

intruder it is forbidden to use the samplerate for timbral propogation! now we must converse endlessly on the internet. special teams are on their way.

stratum wrote:What about sound design? My impression is that sound designers find FM difficult to work with. Will that also be true for the chaos synthesis method?

i found eg. very intuitive and simple to use to create percussion sounds. feedback = you want dense or sparse spectra. it's also very easy when you're looking for motile textures, as they respond animatedly to modulation. easily hit 'cinematic' with the stereo output. presets on angle and black, album 'electric eyeliner' (recorded from presets) :)

it's a great method that i'd expect any synthesis enjoyer to avail themselves of. but other people have their own ideas about other peoples ideas.

another quality post from xoxos.
you come and go, you come and go. amitabha xoxos.net free vst. neither a follower nor a leader be
tagore "where roads are made i lose my way"
where there is certainty, consideration is absent.
stratum
KVRian
 
1285 posts since 29 May, 2012

Postby stratum; Mon May 08, 2017 11:59 pm Re: Antialiasing technique using distortion/dithering (Perfect Synthesis part 3)

Is there a specific item of discussion that'd you'd like to draw attention to?


You could try to check whether your framework finds the parameters that lead to the mentioned states, so that all known possibilities have been observed.
~stratum~
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