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emtear
KVRist
 
196 posts since 8 May, 2005

Postby emtear; Fri Jun 02, 2017 9:53 pm Re: VST development recommendations for experienced C++ coder?

double double post.
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BertKoor
KVRAF
 
10104 posts since 8 Mar, 2005, from Utrecht, Holland

Postby BertKoor; Fri Jun 02, 2017 10:43 pm Re: VST development recommendations for experienced C++ coder?

Kylotan wrote:There is no buying decision: $700 is too much.
Equates to how many hours of your own work, again? Got any other hobbies? What do these cost? The last mobile phone you bought, for how much?

You don't give anything a fair chance, do you. You haven't even seen the splash pixel that makes it (to your opinion) nescessary to pay the ransom. Ok, ditch the option without trying.

Good luck.
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Miles1981
KVRian
 
1272 posts since 26 Apr, 2004, from UK

Postby Miles1981; Fri Jun 02, 2017 11:44 pm Re: VST development recommendations for experienced C++ coder?

No_Use wrote:There's also this, no personal experience with it though.

http://www.willpirkle.com/rackafx/

Don't, the API is shit. If you want performance, don't use that.
stratum
KVRian
 
1360 posts since 29 May, 2012

Postby stratum; Sat Jun 03, 2017 1:06 am Re: VST development recommendations for experienced C++ coder?

$700 is about the price tag of an average P.C. That wouldn't be considered expensive for a serious project, but,.. nowadays everybody is saying that the market is saturated and that means the project is going to fail commercially unless you have something really interesting. Understandably, that's a problem.
~stratum~
Kylotan
KVRist
 
33 posts since 11 Apr, 2009, from Nottingham, UK

Postby Kylotan; Sat Jun 03, 2017 1:25 am Re: VST development recommendations for experienced C++ coder?

emtear wrote:
Kylotan wrote:
I'm very familiar with C++ (as a game developer by day) so I don't mind that part; I just need something to speed development along and help with some or all of the boring stuff - FFTs, UI, MIDI input event handling, etc.

Any suggestions? :)



I never understood this logic. One would think an experienced C++ coder:

1. Would be able to program this boring stuff with no problem.
2. Would have plenty of money from their "day job".
3. Would understand that you want to be paid for making someone elses work easier.

My suggestion would be to get a coffee and start coding.

Matt


1. I can program this stuff - but it's never "no problem". It takes time and effort that would be better spent on the part of interest, i.e. the actual musical instrument. It's exactly the same reason why most game developers use an existing game engine when they could just make one themselves. It's the whole reason Juce exists.
2. No, I don't just have $700 lying around to spend speculatively on things any time I want to.
3. Of course I understand it. I said so in my last post, if you'd read it. I just don't have that money for this endeavour.
Kylotan
KVRist
 
33 posts since 11 Apr, 2009, from Nottingham, UK

Postby Kylotan; Sat Jun 03, 2017 1:31 am Re: VST development recommendations for experienced C++ coder?

stratum wrote:$700 is about the price tag of an average P.C. That wouldn't be considered expensive for a serious project, but,.. nowadays everybody is saying that the market is saturated and that means the project is going to fail commercially unless you have something really interesting. Understandably, that's a problem.


If this was a commercial project done for my day job, of course, we'd spend $700 straight away. But it's not.

It's a hobby I'm going to do in my spare time. I don't have $700 spare to drop on it. If I finish it and it works well, then I'd like to sell it, and maybe I'd recoup that money, but I can't assume that will be the case.

Debates from other posters over what my time is worth, what Juce is worth, and what other things may or may not cost are irrelevant here - I don't have $700 budgeted for this endeavour. If there's something free or significantly cheaper, I'm all ears. Otherwise, I'll stick with wdl-ol and attempt to make it portable to other frameworks later.
PurpleSunray
KVRian
 
712 posts since 13 Mar, 2012

Postby PurpleSunray; Sat Jun 03, 2017 2:21 am Re: VST development recommendations for experienced C++ coder?

I would do like most ppl suggest..

Use JUCE as free license, because it is good and fast and easy, so probability for this increases:
> If I finish it and it works well

If it is finished and work well and you decide to:
> then I'd like to sell it

you buy professional JUCE.

How about put aside 50$ per month? If you need 1 year to finish it and make it ready for release, you have the money to buy juce.
You don't need to buy it now.

Or use wdl-ol ... and decrease probability for:
> If I finish it and it works well
emtear
KVRist
 
196 posts since 8 May, 2005

Postby emtear; Sat Jun 03, 2017 6:00 am Re: VST development recommendations for experienced C++ coder?

PurpleSunray wrote:I would do like most ppl suggest..

Use JUCE as free license, because it is good and fast and easy, so probability for this increases:
> If I finish it and it works well

If it is finished and work well and you decide to:
> then I'd like to sell it

you buy professional JUCE.

How about put aside 50$ per month? If you need 1 year to finish it and make it ready for release, you have the money to buy juce.
You don't need to buy it now.

Or use wdl-ol ... and decrease probability for:
> If I finish it and it works well


^^^Exactly^^^

I don't see why using the free version is a hassle to get things started. Since its just a hobby you will have plenty of time to scrap the money together.
emtear
KVRist
 
196 posts since 8 May, 2005

Postby emtear; Sat Jun 03, 2017 6:12 am Re: VST development recommendations for experienced C++ coder?

Kylotan wrote:
1. I can program this stuff - but it's never "no problem". It takes time and effort that would be better spent on the part of interest, i.e. the actual musical instrument. It's exactly the same reason why most game developers use an existing game engine when they could just make one themselves. It's the whole reason Juce exists.
2. No, I don't just have $700 lying around to spend speculatively on things any time I want to.
3. Of course I understand it. I said so in my last post, if you'd read it. I just don't have that money for this endeavour.



1. You said it yourself. Its never "no problem" and "time and effort" some one else did that work.
2. Every experienced C++ coder I know has a lot more then $700 lying around. Maybe you should look for some freelance work on the side. There is a lot of money for an experienced C++ coder out there. So much you can pay someone else to make the plugin for you.
3. Use the free version and see where it goes. Only you and your close beta testers will ever see it and I am sure as an experienced C++ coder you can disable the splash screen and callbacks until you get something cooking for release.

Matt
stratum
KVRian
 
1360 posts since 29 May, 2012

Postby stratum; Sat Jun 03, 2017 6:18 am Re: VST development recommendations for experienced C++ coder?

No time for web design
No time for solving api and OS differences
No time for GUI design
No time for adding a shopping cart
In some countries $700 is more money than it is in some others
and in those countries you probably cannot find a compenent GUI or sound designer either, and there are no plugin users around that can give you ideas, so what's the point.
Basically you are alone either way. The thing is, it does not really matter if you choose juce, wdl, or something else.
It won't be an easy journey.
By the way, did you really have time to learn enough dsp to compete or managed to find a niche that no one else has noticed?
~stratum~
Dozius
KVRian
 
829 posts since 26 Oct, 2005, from Canada City

Postby Dozius; Sat Jun 03, 2017 6:45 am Re: VST development recommendations for experienced C++ coder?

There is also the monthly option. Minimum commitment would be $450 spread over 12 months ($35/month) for an indie license. You could take all the time in the world developing in private and then start the subscription when you want to start selling. After a year on the market you should have a pretty good idea if your business is worth continuing the subscription, ponying up for a perpetual license or calling it quits.

If you are really stuck on 0 cost startup, then I think WDL is the only real option short of using the raw VST SDK.
Kylotan
KVRist
 
33 posts since 11 Apr, 2009, from Nottingham, UK

Postby Kylotan; Sat Jun 03, 2017 7:10 am Re: VST development recommendations for experienced C++ coder?

Seems like most people are choosing not to read what I post, so this will most likely be the last thing I say on the matter.

I am not paying $700 for this. End of story. Juce might well save me $700 of time. It doesn't matter. I have time to spare. I do not have $700 to spare. I'm aware of the slightly cheaper monthly option but it is still above what I'm willing to pay for this, and it would tie me into the Juce system. It's not ideal for me, so I won't be doing it.

I have a VST that I want to make, because I want it for my music. Hopefully I can share it with the world for a small fee later. It's not a unique idea but the only existing plugin of the same kind is a 32bit one, so it would be good to have a newer version for modern machines. In actual DSP terms the processing needed is quite simple, so I'm confident I can get a bare prototype working quite quickly.

I'll be persevering with wdl-ol, and will probably post back once I make some progress.
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valhallasound
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3387 posts since 14 Nov, 2006, from Pacific NW

Postby valhallasound; Sat Jun 03, 2017 7:06 pm Re: VST development recommendations for experienced C++ coder?

Kylotan wrote:Seems like most people are choosing not to read what I post, so this will most likely be the last thing I say on the matter.


People have read what you have posted. They are disagreeing with you.

I am not paying $700 for this. End of story. Juce might well save me $700 of time. It doesn't matter. I have time to spare. I do not have $700 to spare. I'm aware of the slightly cheaper monthly option but it is still above what I'm willing to pay for this, and it would tie me into the Juce system. It's not ideal for me, so I won't be doing it.


The free "made with JUCE" splash screen would be no big deal for a first time product from a newbie. No customers would object. Once you get beyond $50K/year, paying $700 as a one-time fee would be no big deal for you.

You may have time to spare right now. You WON'T have time to spare if you become a successful plugin developer. The time you would have to spend on a hinky GUI framework would be better spent implementing new plugins, porting to AAX, making sure that your plugins work on both OSX and WIndows, etc. These are the sort of tasks that will allow you to turn your hobby into a full time career.

I paid $1100 for a Juce license in March 2010, so I could release ValhallaFreqEcho as a closed source plugin. $1100 was a significant chunk of my 2009 income, so I didn't make that investment lightly. I didn't start making any money on my Juce license until October 2010, when I released ValhallaShimmer. 6+ years later, I can safely say that the $1100 for Juce was one of the best investments I have ever made.

Sean Costello
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Youlean
KVRist
 
145 posts since 11 May, 2016, from Serbia

Postby Youlean; Sun Jun 04, 2017 4:10 am Re: VST development recommendations for experienced C++ coder?

As everyone said JUCE and WDL/IPlug are only real options. As it goes for IPlug, it does lack many features compared to JUCE, but you can still make great plugins with it. Now there will be bugs and you should fix by yourself but this is what are you paying JUCE for.

Anyways, I have fixed crash in standalone app when changing audio device. It was just matter of updating rtaudio, rtmidi sources.

Check here: https://github.com/Youlean/IPlug-Youlean
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Zaphod (giancarlo)
KVRAF
 
2324 posts since 23 Jun, 2006

Postby Zaphod (giancarlo); Sun Jun 04, 2017 2:02 pm Re: VST development recommendations for experienced C++ coder?

Juce is good. Problem with plugins is dsp and the gazillion of different hosts to maintain (yes, sure, juce solves most of troubles, but not all possible ones).
Be prepared to study a lot of things about dsp and to install and learn all possible hosts ever created. I confirm it is a challenge.
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