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Kylotan
KVRist
 
33 posts since 11 Apr, 2009, from Nottingham, UK

Postby Kylotan; Mon Jun 05, 2017 12:13 am Re: VST development recommendations for experienced C++ coder?

valhallasound wrote:
Kylotan wrote:Seems like most people are choosing not to read what I post, so this will most likely be the last thing I say on the matter.


People have read what you have posted. They are disagreeing with you.


Hey Sean - I have a lot of respect for you, because ValhallaRoom is on all my recordings. :) But they are ignoring what I've said. There are people above suggesting that I'm saying Juce isn't "worth" $700, or that I disagree with people being paid for their software, when I clearly made no such claims (and the opposite in the latter case). I do not have that sort of money lying around.

Similarly one poster said "if you are really stuck on 0 cost startup" which is again absolutely not what I said. I said, right at the start, "willing to pay - just not the $700 that JUCE want". I've paid for my DAW, for my plugins, and for other software, but not one of them was that expensive.

These are the sort of tasks that will allow you to turn your hobby into a full time career.

I paid $1100 for a Juce license in March 2010, so I could release ValhallaFreqEcho as a closed source plugin. $1100 was a significant chunk of my 2009 income, so I didn't make that investment lightly. I didn't start making any money on my Juce license until October 2010, when I released ValhallaShimmer. 6+ years later, I can safely say that the $1100 for Juce was one of the best investments I have ever made.


I have no intention of making it my full-time career. :) My main line of work is good enough - not enough that I have $700 spare I can just throw on a new hobby whenever I like, but that's a different matter. If I was doing what you are, releasing several high quality plugins to presumably create a sustainable business, then of course that would be a reasonable business expense. But that's not the situation I'm in.
Last edited by Kylotan on Mon Jun 05, 2017 2:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
Kylotan
KVRist
 
33 posts since 11 Apr, 2009, from Nottingham, UK

Postby Kylotan; Mon Jun 05, 2017 12:14 am Re: VST development recommendations for experienced C++ coder?

Youlean wrote:As everyone said JUCE and WDL/IPlug are only real options. As it goes for IPlug, it does lack many features compared to JUCE, but you can still make great plugins with it. Now there will be bugs and you should fix by yourself but this is what are you paying JUCE for.

Anyways, I have fixed crash in standalone app when changing audio device. It was just matter of updating rtaudio, rtmidi sources.

Check here: https://github.com/Youlean/IPlug-Youlean


Thanks very much - this is likely to be a lot of help to me.
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Guillaume Piolat
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109 posts since 21 Sep, 2015, from Grenoble

Postby Guillaume Piolat; Mon Jun 05, 2017 1:26 am Re: VST development recommendations for experienced C++ coder?

Kylotan wrote:Target platform is Windows 64bit VST at a minimum; anything else would be a bonus.

Any suggestions? :)


https://github.com/AuburnSounds/dplug (disclaimer: author)
Missing features over wdl-youlean are currently: AAX, VST3, resizeable UI, High-DPI.
arne
KVRist
 
137 posts since 21 Aug, 2004

Postby arne; Mon Jun 05, 2017 3:34 am Re: VST development recommendations for experienced C++ coder?

Why then not just using the plain VST3 SDK. No license cost.
Targets VST3, VST2 on Windows, VST3 on Linux and VST3, VST2 and AudioUnit on macOS.
FWIW, it has a WYSIWYG UI-Editor.
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Guillaume Piolat
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109 posts since 21 Sep, 2015, from Grenoble

Postby Guillaume Piolat; Mon Jun 05, 2017 5:38 am Re: VST development recommendations for experienced C++ coder?

Sure, there are companies basing their framework around the VST SDK.
As for VST3 itself, it is seldom asked by customers, and has a mixed reputation.
Miles1981
KVRian
 
1251 posts since 26 Apr, 2004, from UK

Postby Miles1981; Mon Jun 05, 2017 11:50 am Re: VST development recommendations for experienced C++ coder?

Kylotan wrote:Hey Sean - I have a lot of respect for you, because ValhallaRoom is on all my recordings. :) But they are ignoring what I've said. There are people above suggesting that I'm saying Juce isn't "worth" $700, or that I disagree with people being paid for their software, when I clearly made no such claims (and the opposite in the latter case). I do not have that sort of money lying around.

No, you haven't read the answers and haven't replied to the only actual issue there is with JUCE : the "splash" screen. You say that you don't want it, but you don't even know how it presents itself.
No one tells you to go for the 700$ licence or the GPL version.
Dozius
KVRian
 
831 posts since 26 Oct, 2005, from Canada City

Postby Dozius; Mon Jun 05, 2017 4:31 pm Re: VST development recommendations for experienced C++ coder?

Geez, try to help someone out and get shit on. Your dismissive of my first suggestion, which is that WDL is probably fine and that there is a more active fork available, then go ahead and thank Youlean for suggesting the exact same thing. Then you single me out as a shit poster for trying to suggest a cheaper way to get in on JUCE, even though you were not explicit about your budget or that you have no intention of ever paying for JUCE, even in the long run. All I can say at this point is good luck, I think you will probably need it. :shrug:
Kylotan
KVRist
 
33 posts since 11 Apr, 2009, from Nottingham, UK

Postby Kylotan; Tue Jun 06, 2017 1:07 am Re: VST development recommendations for experienced C++ coder?

Dozius wrote:Geez, try to help someone out and get shit on.


That's a bit hyperbolic.

Your dismissive of my first suggestion, which is that WDL is probably fine and that there is a more active fork available


I pointed out that the bug was actually in an underlying piece of software rather than in wdl-ol itself, which is why I was asking for options in addition to that. I also said, "Still, if that is the best option available, I'll use it - I'd just prefer something else." Is it dismissive to want to hear a few more suggestions before proceeding, when the thread still only has 2 replies? I don't think so. After 4 pages of replies, including someone explaining how they addressed the specific bug bothering me, obviously the outlook is different.

Then you single me out as a shit poster for trying to suggest a cheaper way to get in on JUCE

No, I singled you out for claiming I'm a "0 cost startup" when I said in the very first post "willing to pay - just not the $700".

I apologise however for not acknowledging your "$450 spread over 12 months" option. That is still too much for me, given the circumstances and the alternatives, but thanks for pointing it out.
Kylotan
KVRist
 
33 posts since 11 Apr, 2009, from Nottingham, UK

Postby Kylotan; Tue Jun 06, 2017 1:14 am Re: VST development recommendations for experienced C++ coder?

Miles1981 wrote:No, you haven't read the answers and haven't replied to the only actual issue there is with JUCE : the "splash" screen. You say that you don't want it, but you don't even know how it presents itself.


Even if I decided that I could cope with the splash screen, I wouldn't want to cope with the user tracking aspect - section 10.1 of their licence. (https://www.juce.com/juce-5-license) Sadly this option is off the table.
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valhallasound
KVRAF
 
3363 posts since 14 Nov, 2006, from Pacific NW

Postby valhallasound; Tue Jun 06, 2017 8:44 am Re: VST development recommendations for experienced C++ coder?

Kylotan wrote:
Miles1981 wrote:No, you haven't read the answers and haven't replied to the only actual issue there is with JUCE : the "splash" screen. You say that you don't want it, but you don't even know how it presents itself.


Even if I decided that I could cope with the splash screen, I wouldn't want to cope with the user tracking aspect - section 10.1 of their licence. (https://www.juce.com/juce-5-license) Sadly this option is off the table.


Wow. Didn't see this section of the license. Yeah, user tracking won't win fans. This wasn't around in the earlier Juce licenses.
Miles1981
KVRian
 
1251 posts since 26 Apr, 2004, from UK

Postby Miles1981; Tue Jun 06, 2017 9:20 am Re: VST development recommendations for experienced C++ coder?

They added it explicitely and yes, it's kind of a bummer.
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syntonica
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263 posts since 24 Sep, 2014, from Specific Northwest

Postby syntonica; Wed Jun 07, 2017 5:18 pm Re: VST development recommendations for experienced C++ coder?

I ended up rolling my own UI. It was easier that trying hack my way through third-party code. My UI is about 1500 lines of code, half of which is boilerplate code that covers defining the layout. This is for Mac VST, still looking for the AU2 SDK to make the wrapper. (Unfortunately, when Apple deprecates anything, they use their MIB flashy pen thingy on the Intarwebs... :P) When I get to the PC side of things, I expect to add about 200 lines of code to read and draw the GUI layout code (no C++->ObjC wrapping! ObjC++ is ov the debbil. :evil: :scared: )

As an aside, everything is drawn, no graphics files. Future project is to add some scaling (adding 5000 "*guiScale"s to my code. :lol:), but I do have that option.

I didn't know about the JUCE tracking bit. Not cool, especially in a world where many (most?) music computers are not on the net at all. I wonder what the tracking mod will do about that?

Anyways, in regards to rolling your own, I did mine in a weekend and spent another weekend tightening up the code.

Full disclosure: I knew squat about C++, VST and DSP when I started. Now I hate all so-called C++ libraries, am annoyed at Steinberg and understand about 10% of DSP... :cry: However, I should have my first beta release here shortly as I tidy up some features and create a few more patches.
Kylotan
KVRist
 
33 posts since 11 Apr, 2009, from Nottingham, UK

Postby Kylotan; Thu Jun 08, 2017 12:56 am Re: VST development recommendations for experienced C++ coder?

I made a start with wdl-ol. I got it producing sound, so the next step is to wire in the MIDI events, and then to add the specific stuff that I want to make.

The only thing I'm concerned about is the UI since I would like to have it scalable rather than fixed bitmaps. I might resort to using a gaming graphics library for that, if I can make it work. That's low priority though.
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Christian Schüler
KVRist
 
245 posts since 23 Nov, 2004, from Hamburg, Germany

Postby Christian Schüler; Thu Jun 08, 2017 8:15 am Re: VST development recommendations for experienced C++ coder?

+1 for rolling your own; I did it for AriesVerb back in 2004 and never looked back. Just so you know, in C++ you can perfectly derive a class from a struct, so you could

Code: Select all
class VstClass : public AEffect
{ ...


In this way, the VstClass can be passed verbatim as the AEffect instance to the audiomaster :party: .
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