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joshb
KVRist
 
54 posts since 13 Apr, 2016

Postby joshb; Tue Jun 06, 2017 11:10 am Fender Rhodes & Wurlitzer electric piano simulations...

Does anyone know anywhere I can find some information on simulating a Rhodes and/or Wurly? Specifically DSP or physical modeling information. I'm not turning anything up.

Thanks.
joshb
KVRist
 
54 posts since 13 Apr, 2016

Postby joshb; Thu Jun 08, 2017 8:01 pm Re: Fender Rhodes & Wurlitzer electric piano simulations...

No one?
simmo75
KVRist
 
295 posts since 25 Mar, 2016, from Seattle

Postby simmo75; Thu Jun 08, 2017 8:41 pm Re: Fender Rhodes & Wurlitzer electric piano simulations...

You should check out AAS Lounge Lizard EP-4(physical modeling).
I'm selling it should you like it and want to buy it :tu:
matt42
KVRian
 
894 posts since 9 Jan, 2006

Postby matt42; Fri Jun 09, 2017 3:20 am Re: Fender Rhodes & Wurlitzer electric piano simulations...

Maybe search for Karplus-Strong, wave guides, modal synthesis. I've not much experience with physical modeling, so those are just some suggestions of places to start looking into physical modeling. Perhaps others could suggest better/more detailed info on algorithms suited to modeling e pianos.
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valhallasound
KVRAF
 
3360 posts since 14 Nov, 2006, from Pacific NW

Postby valhallasound; Fri Jun 09, 2017 2:52 pm Re: Fender Rhodes & Wurlitzer electric piano simulations...

Try Googling

fender rhodes physical model

There are a few interesting links in the first few pages of the search.
JCJR
KVRAF
 
2003 posts since 17 Apr, 2005, from S.E. TN

Postby JCJR; Fri Jun 09, 2017 3:44 pm Re: Fender Rhodes & Wurlitzer electric piano simulations...

Hi Joshb

The thread title says "simulation" but you specifically ask about physical modeling.

Perhaps a good enough physical model could be "better than the real thing" but if you just want to make nice rhodes and wurlie sounds then MAYBE it could be easier accomplished via layered multisampling? Though a good multisample and/or the multisample playback engine would also take some work to do it right.

There are probably detailed articles somewhere. Maybe a fancy enough layered sampling could almost qualify as "halfway there to physical modeling"?

For instance a rhodes, if you adjust the tine far away from the pickup axis, most of the output is "close to a sine wave" at the fundamental pitch. If you adjust the tine "straight inline" with the pickup tip, you get "close to a sine wave" one octave higher than the fundamental. As best I recall they can look a lot like sine waves on a scope but have sufficient minor distortion to add some quiet overtones.

When you twist a screwdriver moving the tine position closer to pickup axis, you hear a progressive mix of "fundamental sine" gradually fading out while the "overtone sine" gradually fades in. For instance one of the main characteristics of "dyno style" rhodes was just to adjust the tine height for less fundamental and more overtone, giving a shallower brighter sound.

Maybe one could do a model accurate enough to synthesize all the above out of lots of differential equations. Or alternately with one set of "fundamental tone" samples and another set of "octave higher" samples then maybe you could have a knob to adjust the piano to have any sound from "very dark" thru "extreme dyno" merely by the mix percentage between those two sample sets.

Many other features would need sampling. I'm just wondering, if a physical model has to account for the various transient pitch shifts, noises, chimes, clinks, growl on slammed notes, etc-- Unless you had a unified physical model that calculates every bit of it in one giant orgy of differential equations-- If you had to separately physically model the different parts and mix them together, then it might be very similar to doing the same mixing together of many sample layers?
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Richard_Synapse
KVRian
 
683 posts since 19 Dec, 2010

Postby Richard_Synapse; Sat Jun 10, 2017 1:20 am Re: Fender Rhodes & Wurlitzer electric piano simulations...

JCJR wrote:Many other features would need sampling. I'm just wondering, if a physical model has to account for the various transient pitch shifts, noises, chimes, clinks, growl on slammed notes, etc-- Unless you had a unified physical model that calculates every bit of it in one giant orgy of differential equations-- If you had to separately physically model the different parts and mix them together, then it might be very similar to doing the same mixing together of many sample layers?


Sure, quite a few physical models use sampling in one way or another, that's a legitimate approach. The goal should be to beat brute-force multi-sampling which exhibits various problems, like audible transitions between notes or velocity layers. How we get there does not matter, ihmo. And I doubt we'll see any physical model anytime soon that sounds perfectly authentic and is not based on any samples or measurements.

Richard
Synapse Audio Software - www.synapse-audio.com

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