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Who is using Swift?

stratum
KVRian
 
1240 posts since 29 May, 2012

Postby stratum; Fri Jun 09, 2017 3:42 pm Who is using Swift?

Apparently Apple has a "new" language. By "new", I mean probably at least 3 years old, but since the Apple platform is not particularly relevant to my day time job, I tend to ignore it.

Anyway.. it looks like Objective C will eventually be replaced with a Pascal-like language that is also reminiscent of D, in the sense that it's an application oriented language but one without obligatory garbage collection. OK, not jaw-dropping or particularly interesting but makes sense, not everybody needs C++, and not everyone wants Java.

I am also aware that Apple can afford to create their own ecosystem composed of developers who would follow whatever they do and do nothing else, but I mean, seriously, do you really feel like, as a developer your time should be spent on it or should your company's resources be spent on a new language whose supporting libraries only work on a particular platform and nowhere else? As far as I can see the fact that the core of it is open source does not seem to be good enough to gain wide acceptance.

End of rambling.
~stratum~
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syntonica
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263 posts since 24 Sep, 2014, from Specific Northwest

Postby syntonica; Fri Jun 09, 2017 8:32 pm Re: Who is using Swift?

I haven't been using it, but it's a far cry better than Objective-C as a lot of the fiddly stuff is already baked in. Cocoa in Obj-C is the stuff of Greek tragedy. I think it's closer to C# or Fantom than Java, but it's been awhile since seriously I looked at it.

The key here is Apple-only, as in iOS and maybe macOS.

If I was going to be Apple-only, I'd definitely jump on that bandwagon. Graphics would be easier and the C++ bridge to VST-land would probably be easier, too. I don't see Swift taking the Windows world by storm any time soon.
gnjp
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164 posts since 11 Feb, 2006

Postby gnjp; Sat Jun 10, 2017 2:42 am Re: Who is using Swift?

The key here is Apple-only, as in iOS and maybe macOS.


Mac most definitely and..
Linux: https://swift.org/download/#releases
Windows: https://swiftforwindows.codeplex.com

No direct support for UI on Linux and Windows, so mainly CLI and server side code. As with Objective-C Apple doesn't recommend calling Swift in real-time audio threads, due to possible memory allocations etc, so you end up dropping down to C or C++.
stratum
KVRian
 
1240 posts since 29 May, 2012

Postby stratum; Sat Jun 10, 2017 3:22 am Re: Who is using Swift?

What's odd about Apple in general can be seen even in a 3 years old language:

https://swift.org/migration-guide/

Backward compatibility? No forget about it. You are supposed to be migrating code. I wonder how that would be happening if the code to be migrated wasn't a 5-10K lines long iPhone app.
~stratum~
xoxos
Mr Entertainment
 
12054 posts since 29 Apr, 2002, from i might peeramid

Postby xoxos; Sat Jun 10, 2017 4:46 am Re: Who is using Swift?

just a thought on platform,

haven't looked for any stats but experientially it seems to me that u.s. military personnel seem to defer to apple quite a lot.
you come and go, you come and go. amitabha xoxos.net free vst. neither a follower nor a leader be
tagore "where roads are made i lose my way"
where there is certainty, consideration is absent.
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stratology
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89 posts since 31 May, 2004, from Ireland

Postby stratology; Sat Jun 10, 2017 7:33 am Re: Who is using Swift?

Not a developer here, but just to state the obvious: Apple does both hardware and software.

So the best way to take advantage of new developments in both hardware and software (OS) is to use their own programming language, rather than a generic, cross platform one.

Example: Swift automatically takes advantage of new features in APFS, without devs having to write any additional code.
resynthesis
KVRist
 
254 posts since 17 Sep, 2007, from Planet Thanet

Postby resynthesis; Sat Jun 10, 2017 8:30 am Re: Who is using Swift?

But that should be an API feature not language
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Guillaume Piolat
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110 posts since 21 Sep, 2015, from Grenoble

Postby Guillaume Piolat; Sat Jun 10, 2017 8:58 am Re: Who is using Swift?

Should your company's resources be spent on a new language whose supporting libraries only work on a particular platform and nowhere else?

Honestly I'm a bit fed up with powerful companies releasing weaponized languages to lock you into their marketplace, where they get 30% of your added value.
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stratology
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89 posts since 31 May, 2004, from Ireland

Postby stratology; Sat Jun 10, 2017 9:49 am Re: Who is using Swift?

resynthesis wrote:But that should be an API feature not language


If you watch the "What's new in APFS" session of WWDC 2017, they show what I'm referring to.
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stratology
KVRist
 
89 posts since 31 May, 2004, from Ireland

Postby stratology; Sat Jun 10, 2017 9:58 am Re: Who is using Swift?

Guillaume Piolat wrote:
Should your company's resources be spent on a new language whose supporting libraries only work on a particular platform and nowhere else?

Honestly I'm a bit fed up with powerful companies releasing weaponized languages to lock you into their marketplace, where they get 30% of your added value.


Haha, 'weaponised language', brilliant.

Seriously, iOS development is profitable, and has a huge audience, that's what makes it attractive. Xcode still supports Objective C, C++, etc, so there's no lock in.

For Mac and iOS development, you get free, fully featured, professional developer tools. Comparable tools on other platform cost thousands.

Apple takes 30% - for that, developers get immediate worldwide distribution on a busy, highly visible market place, without having to do any of that themselves.

Another thing that I haven't seen others do is something like Swift Playgrounds, which is a fantastic, free learning tool for kids.
Tim Cook gave props to some kid developers during the keynote.
resynthesis
KVRist
 
254 posts since 17 Sep, 2007, from Planet Thanet

Postby resynthesis; Sat Jun 10, 2017 10:20 am Re: Who is using Swift?

stratology wrote:
resynthesis wrote:But that should be an API feature not language


If you watch the "What's new in APFS" session of WWDC 2017, they show what I'm referring to.


Oh, I'm speaking from ignorance :) I'm not an Apple dev and have no intentions of being one
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syntonica
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263 posts since 24 Sep, 2014, from Specific Northwest

Postby syntonica; Sat Jun 10, 2017 10:35 am Re: Who is using Swift?

stratology wrote:For Mac and iOS development, you get free, fully featured, professional developer tools. Comparable tools on other platform cost thousands.

Ooh so much irony there... Remember Atari's dig: "Power without the Price"? Referring to both ownership and development. :ud:
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Zaphod (giancarlo)
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2301 posts since 23 Jun, 2006

Postby Zaphod (giancarlo); Sat Jun 10, 2017 11:29 am Re: Who is using Swift?

stratum wrote:What's odd about Apple in general can be seen even in a 3 years old language:

https://swift.org/migration-guide/

Backward compatibility? No forget about it. You are supposed to be migrating code. I wonder how that would be happening if the code to be migrated wasn't a 5-10K lines long iPhone app.


LooooooooooooooooooooooooL
This is LoooooooooooooooooooooooL
Man, seriously NOPE
This apple thingy is ridiculous
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
stratum
KVRian
 
1240 posts since 29 May, 2012

Postby stratum; Sat Jun 10, 2017 11:49 am Re: Who is using Swift?

This apple thingy is ridiculous


Actually is, apparently "the migration tool" is built into the compiler.
That's what the rest of the world calls "backward compatible".
But no, their dictionary doesn't have that word, so they can't have it even when they do, therefore they build "migration" into the compiler.
~stratum~
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Zaphod (giancarlo)
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2301 posts since 23 Jun, 2006

Postby Zaphod (giancarlo); Sat Jun 10, 2017 12:02 pm Re: Who is using Swift?

It seems a result of poor design and fix
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