KVR Audio

Vertion · Post by **Vertion** » Sun Jul 30, 2017 6:34 pm

BertKoor wrote:So... did you learn something from that in respect to your own future project? Is creating music simular enough to painting pixels?

I'm just watching this in awe, seeing higher order at work..it's Good! ..and yes.. the emergent behavior is exactly what I see with this project.. except I realize the power of vibration on reality... which is far more potent... I rarely see people dancing to a painting, unless music is involved.

BertKoor · Post by **BertKoor** » Mon Jul 31, 2017 6:40 am

I rarely see the masses contributing to a piece of art... and not f#cking it up.

On a big canvas you can look at parts you like and ignore parts with rubbish. You can fill parts of the canvas with a single color and it might still be interesting. But if you fill a loop with snare hits on each grid space, that's not so pleasing.

So I think the creative, conservative & destructive forces are far less likely to be in balance with an audio project. Note I say "audio" not "music".

Imagine you are in the park messing with your smartphone wearing cans. On your fav producers forum you hear about this collaborative music space. So you pay it a visit.

Channel 1 is disappointing. Someone filled the grid with base drums. You clean it up, much better.

You switch to channel 2: awful awful sound, beyond rescue. So back to channel 1 you find a troll has put back all the base drum hits.

What a bunch of tossers, you leave the community, never to return...

That is a very realistic scenario. So how will you prevent that?

stratum · Post by **stratum** » Mon Jul 31, 2017 9:53 am

So I think the creative, conservative & destructive forces are far less likely to be in balance with an audio project. Note I say "audio" not "music".

As far as I can see there is nothing that could possibly go wrong with this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drum_circle

This stuff is probably as old as humanity.

It's a bit unlikely that a large scale collaboration will work if the purpose is beyond that though. Nevertheless there are a few things that could be done to ease convergence of ideas - for example, a channel may have a known genre so participants already know how to contribute, they may be a closed set of friends who know each others style, etc.

BertKoor · Post by **BertKoor** » Mon Jul 31, 2017 10:00 am

Good point! If you limit it to percussion only, then inharmonic "melodies" can't be disruptive.

Another thought I had was to base it all on a Git-like repository. There's just one project, starting with a beat of 4-on-the-floor, and numerous branches of it going in all directions with changed tempo or whatever.

The user selects a commit previously made by a user, does his additions, and creates a new commit.
So you can browse up the tree of commits, see the entire project history and who changed what. Oh, then you can award users for their contributions with a Like button. Also this facilitates that troll commits can easily be ignored by the community.

Gamma-UT · Post by **Gamma-UT** » Mon Jul 31, 2017 10:07 am

BertKoor wrote:That is a very realistic scenario. So how will you prevent that?

Through the awesome power of Genius!

And death penalties for anyone who goes against the aural karma.

nonnaci · Post by **nonnaci** » Mon Jul 31, 2017 1:34 pm

The creative region between chaos and order is thin. Using an analogy from training deep nets, some form of regularization is necessary to break-past local minima. e.g. In collaborate games such as pokemon-twitch, self-organization by the players was unsufficient as the moderators had to introduce a voting schema/mechanic midway into the playthrough to move things along.

BertKoor · Post by **BertKoor** » Mon Jul 31, 2017 1:46 pm

BertKoor wrote:I can't find it now, but I saw this vid where thousands tried to control a gameboy game by democracy. The action hero could not move three steps forward (the obvious direction to go) without sabotagers moving it back.

>Found back< what my memory had lost...

Vertion · Post by **Vertion** » Mon Jul 31, 2017 7:01 pm

I did some thinking on this. I must clarify my description further, I was not clear before and I realize that now. Every user has a single voice.. a mono synth instrument if you will... at least for the first generation of this design. The user input from at least 3 tracks per user are stored in a loop of word resolution (16bit) that is sampling the user input at the same rate as the PPQ (resampling is feasible too).. this loop is broadcasted when the user makes changes.. the broadcasted loop goes to all peers upon the user change.. and updates their own record of the loop.. and gradualizes the change over the time space of a single loop if required to avoid abrupt shifts.. essentially it would be like you have a username.. and the last received loop data from them that is just looping on your own client... independently... and when you make a change upon your own loop it gets sent out...

so say you have 20 people in a circle... you simply have their last transmission held in a loop.. and it only changes upon update.. and always does so tastefully (gradualized changes applied if required)... additionally only what is actually changed is sent.. with the except of full update requests..this way everyone stays in the loop and the most updated.. also this is intended to be an expansive peer to peer network.. i was looking at using freedom.js

the application will also be able to send update requests to each other.. in case a new client comes aboard and needs the most current.. so that way new logins are given loop data immediately..

i will put up my own version in jsfiddle here as soon as it gains some cohesion.. but I'm a turtle.. any examples in jsfiddle would be appreciated greatly .. i'm looking to pull all this together in the chrome browser.. it seems logical as a starting point... afterall.. it has midi in and out capabilities... as well as midi import/export and wave import/export! It's so awesome!!!

ps.
so anyhow.. you can only affect your own loop.. and you can move towards and away from others... where those you generate the most movement with stay the closest.. this is where the ai comes in.. its a simple feedforward neural network with a very simple objective function... maximize user activity.. via 2 methods... it controls one instrument for those who are first joining to have a point of reference.. and the other is how it matches up users... it adjust the volume of the connected users to maximize the focus of those that have the most cohesion and affect on the rest of the group... this is more stuff I had planned to reveal later.. but you an use an existing javascript neural network library to set it up... easy peasy..

martinjuenke · Post by **martinjuenke** » Mon Jul 31, 2017 8:37 pm

I don't know what you're smoking but it's obviously pretty good!

The Quest for Good