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[Chaotikmind]

"Socialism" is defined by the fact that capital is distributed amongst productive individuals (workers) who then "own" the means of production. In the socialist system "owners" are eliminated, they simply do not exist as it is not possible to "own" a means of production, a parcel of land, rights, resources and so on without directly contributing toward it with some form of labor.

"Communism" is defined by the fact capital is distributed by the government which is instead the owner of capital, means of production, land, rights and resources.

No no , you got that wrong, Communist is a system without a government, like anarchism (or was supposed to be)
That one of the great tragedy of our time, mixing in weird ways
the original meaning of communism and socialism
(i hate both to be clear)
Russia was a socialist country hence the uSsr, and karl marx said the most stupid thing ever (independently of what you could think about socialism or communism) when he said socialism is the path to communism but actually both systems are diametrically opposed, that is f**king nonsense.

And actually to explain thing correctly we have to come back to the "age of enlightement" where the current definition of property rights were made, one of the main difference between communism and others systems is that communism doesn't recognize the "fructus" (property right is made of 3 parts, abusus , usus, fructus)

Not sure i was very clear in the way i expressed it, but i guess you will get the idea.

Taking the United States as an example, the collection of taxes and civil forfeiture demonstrates that the right to property (capital) is not ultimately in the hands of the individual but the government. If the system were true "capitalism", all lending would be private and unregulated, taxation would not exist thereby eliminating public projects and services such as law enforcement and courts, the military and president and government and regulatory bodies such as congress.

True "capitalism" can only exist in a libertarian anarchy where every individual is responsible for their own needs: leading to the political and regulatory systems we have today as a result of the agreement of the participants. So it should be intuitive that "true capitalism" is nothing but an abstract concept and impossible to actually implement in reality.

I'm not sure i agree of not about the fact that it's just an abstract concept, "impossibility to implement in reality" is more like, "people in power who will not like to see it implemented in reality", IMO.
Oh yes and retards that can't do anything unless the state hold their hands as well .....

[Aleksey Vaneev]

That one of the great tragedy of our time, mixing in weird ways
the original meaning of communism and socialism
(i hate both to be clear)

You really forgot capitalism which will be noted as a historical quirk someday.
There are 3 terrible innovations in world's economic history:
1. Terrible communism: absence of personal property rights
2. Terrible socialism: some official person takes your money and hands them to someone else
3. Terrible capitalism: you are putting your personal risk on someone else's shoulders

The current capitalism is the mix of 3:
1. Federal property
2. EBT cards
3. Bank deposits

In the "new world order" there will be no bank deposits, but only investment portfolios. Chances are people will be instead investing into coins of blockchain crypto-production they can personally study. So, there will be no private banking in the end.

[Robert Randolph]

That one of the great tragedy of our time, mixing in weird ways
the original meaning of communism and socialism
(i hate both to be clear)

You really forgot capitalism which will be noted as a historical quirk someday.
There are 3 terrible innovations in world's economic history:
1. Terrible communism: absence of personal property rights
2. Terrible socialism: some official person takes your money and hands them to someone else
3. Terrible capitalism: you are putting your personal risk on someone else's shoulders

The current capitalism is the mix of 3:
1. Federal property
2. EBT cards
3. Bank deposits

In the "new world order" there will be no bank deposits, but only investment portfolios. Chances are people will be instead investing into coins of blockchain crypto-production they can personally study. So, there will be no private banking in the end.

You seem to greatly overestimate the intelligence of the average person.

The large majority of people can't even manage their assets sanely, let alone care about studying a blockchain or care about what those assets even actually are.

As long as they can get food, and probably a TV, they'll do what they're told.

[Aleksey Vaneev]

The large majority of people can't even manage their assets sanely, let alone care about studying a blockchain or care about what those assets even actually are.

As long as they can get food, and probably a TV, they'll do what they're told.

Robotization and free consumption will help a bit to make life of those people easier, they won't starve. But they'll have to upgrade their brains in the end, we are entering the age of reason.

[Robert Randolph]

The large majority of people can't even manage their assets sanely, let alone care about studying a blockchain or care about what those assets even actually are.

As long as they can get food, and probably a TV, they'll do what they're told.

Robotization and free consumption will help a bit to make life of those people easier, they won't starve. But they'll have to upgrade their brains in the end, we are entering the age of reason.

The global mean years of school is still hovering around a primary level education (not even enough to handle basic algebra).

Even in countries with an expected years of school of ~12, surveys indicate that graduates can barely handle secondary level math or primary level logic.

There's a very, very long way to go. Many generations worth of effort.

[stratum]

Robotization and free consumption will help a bit to make life of those people easier, they won't starve. But they'll have to upgrade their brains in the end, we are entering the age of reason.

Is that the 'brave new world' of Aldous Huxley? I had thought that was nonsense while reading it and apparently afterwards himself has admited it being so.

[Aleksey Vaneev]

There's a very, very long way to go. Many generations worth of effort.

I partially agree. But much depends on the changes to come, maybe things will change in one generation, maybe attempts to create crypto-production blockchains in some form are already taking place. The general idea is simple: why give reward to miners if we can get rewards ourselves in exchange for something good offered to people that invest in us and spread information about us.

[Aleksey Vaneev]

Robotization and free consumption will help a bit to make life of those people easier, they won't starve. But they'll have to upgrade their brains in the end, we are entering the age of reason.

Is that the 'brave new world' of Aldous Huxley? I had thought that was nonsense while reading it and apparently afterwards himself has admited it being so.

I have not read that book. To me, the age of reason is when reason above the current average level will be required to present in everyone, not just scientists. In other words, the IQ test's baseline should move from 100 to 105, for example.

[stratum]

It's a dystopian novel concerning a post-industrial world in which the average person is considered to be too intelligent to live happily in that world so they mass-produce retarded ones for boring jobs. They act like robots, be productive and happy. Inspired by a bad trip, probably.

[Aleksey Vaneev]

It's a dystopian novel concerning a post-industrial world in which the average person is considered to be too intelligent to live happily in that world so they mass-produce retarded ones for boring jobs. They act like robots, be productive and happy. Inspired by a bad trip, probably.

Thanks for the explanation. I guess it may be an insight based on now-outdated concepts. As Tesla production, and many computer program robots demonstrate humans are almost not necessary for production other than for installing the plant and pressing the On and Off buttons. Credit economy can't cope with such state of matters, because if robots do the job, customers can't repay the credit (unless, of course, customers own the robots). In any case new economy requires an agile investment techniques.

[Aleksey Vaneev]

One element I've overlooked in the original post is retail channels, but it's only a matter of adding a "retailer record" and additional signature to the consumption record. Then retailers can generate consumption records, sign them and wait for producer and consumer signatures. The retailer reward can be negotiated in an off-blockchain manner: due to open nature of blockchain retailers may know how much reward their channel generated.

[Aleksey Vaneev]

There was an accusation made that I may be interested in tax evasion. I'm not interested, I pay all required taxes in my country. For the next decade at least tax evasion via crypto coins is hypothetical, because there is virtually no market exists where you can spend cryptos to buy goods. In practice, to spend crypto coins you have to convert them into national currency, and that's where taxation can be applied.

If one fantasises a bit, removal of capitalistic credit system will result in one world government, because it may be a more effective governance. Currently capitalists protect their borders to protect their investment. And sadly enough, such global companies as Google and Facebook may potentially use their platforms to covertly promote US businesses and interests.

When one world government appears, a taxation would be as simple as sending a part of mining rewards to a governmental wallet, it may be required by law.

[aciddose]

I wasn't making a direct accusation but rather pointing out that tax evasion is one of a handful of criminal motivations behind "bitcoins" and similar schemes. If you're not aware of the reality of how bitcoins are used I'm frightened by how little you've studied the subject before coming up with uneducated "ideas" contradictory to reality.

None of them have been used to date on a wide practical scale as a currency or even a medium of exchange (commodity) without being associated with criminal enterprise.

It's a similar problem with the common libertarian demands for moving toward a capitalist anarchy or "progressive" demands to move toward a true socialist soviet communism (which just like capitalism has been demonstrated to be pure abstract, not possible to actually implement.) These ideologies are ignorant of the tragedy of the commons.

There are very valid reasons that the system we have today is where it is: it's a series of small corrections to what started as an abstract ideology and failed over and over. Each time there is an issue, we bring out the glue and haywire to try to patch things up.

Starting over from scratch by wiping the slate and attempting to implement a different abstract ideology will just lead to the same thing: but we don't really have another 300 years to f**k around. We need to be making real changes to fix problems in the system we have, not creating a huge smoldering crater and re-starting civilization from the ash.

Take a look at the leading economies of the world and how we're coping with real solutions to these problems. The United States is unfortunately on a path driven by nostalgia; "make america great again!", yeah like when there were slaves, everyone rode around on horses, shit filled the gutters in the street, we had horrible diseases, women couldn't vote ... GREAT IDEA GUYS! If people had the slightest bit of intelligence they'd see it for what it is: "make america undo everything we've accomplished for the past years!" Oh that's a lovely paint job on your new house... but I see some small flaws... let me bulldoze that for you!

What about countries like Finland? Sweden? UK? Canada? We're fighting to make changes that will actually improve life for everyone and actually work by progressing forward, rather than shoving our heads up our ass or just chopping them off at the neck.

[aciddose]

... or "progressive" demands to move toward a true socialist soviet communism (which just like capitalism has been demonstrated to be pure abstract, not possible to actually implement.) These ideologies are ignorant of the tragedy of the commons.

Look to history: in a soviet republic there is an advantage to groups of soviets who band together to vote in unison: political parties. As these parties grow in power and scale they naturally absorb one another until the conclusion: two parties battle for control of the entire republic, where if one can win over the other a dictatorship is formed via manipulation of the workings of government.

What is going on in Russia today? Is that a surprise? It's natural evolution of this system.

Is this any different from the United States? No? Are you really surprised?

China is an example of a quite successful communist meritocracy: if I were forced to choose the most likely candidate to succeed in producing something better? China is my choice. They have many issues much like any other system but the evolutionary pressures in a meritocracy are different. Will this make a difference? I'm excited to find out.

[Aleksey Vaneev]

Starting over from scratch by wiping the slate and attempting to implement a different abstract ideology will just lead to the same thing: but we don't really have another 300 years to f**k around. We need to be making real changes to fix problems in the system we have, not creating a huge smoldering crater and re-starting civilization from the ash.

But we are not starting over from scratch. What I'm offering is a gradual change, and it can be started right away, a new open economy where an actual planning can be done. Maybe Steinberg could do such blockchain, and initially act as a "central authority". What's the incentive? Pre-mined coins and a fixed part in mining rewards, I would agree to give 5% to support the blockchain development. It's risky, but I'm sure doable.