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syntonica
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374 posts since 24 Sep, 2014, from Specific Northwest

Postby syntonica; Sun Apr 01, 2018 11:06 pm Re: Converted JUCE to American spelling

stratum wrote:Surprizingly the artificial language named Esperanto is in the list.

I wouldn't call making compound words from other whole words agglutinization. Agglutinizing languages tack on or infix clitics--particles that impart meaning, but generally do not stand on their own as words.

Anyways, I'm busy learning more about C++ than I ever wanted to know. Apparently, I learned the Gnu dialect (which makes sense to me) rather than the ISO version which Microsoft slavishly adheres to in its compiler. Apparently, if I parse ASCII chars, I can't use ranges for my case statements, but have to do 90+ case statements to handle letters and numbers. :roll:
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EvilDragon
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16015 posts since 6 Jan, 2009, from Croatia

Postby EvilDragon; Sun Apr 01, 2018 11:34 pm Re: Converted JUCE to American spelling

syntonica wrote:
EvilDragon wrote:Well, Hungarian and Finnish are there to screw everything up. Nordic languages are also pretty different to other European languages despite being classified as "north germanic", it is actually more descended from old Norse and borrows from germanic.

Don't diss the Finno-Ugrics! I love me some 27 cases and 53 moods! :lol:


I'm only dissing Hungarians. Finns are lovely folk. To me the two languages don't even sound the same. Finnish is a LOT easier on the ear, for some reason I cannot explain...
Last edited by EvilDragon on Sun Apr 01, 2018 11:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
stratum
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1676 posts since 29 May, 2012

Postby stratum; Sun Apr 01, 2018 11:35 pm Re: Converted JUCE to American spelling

syntonica wrote:
stratum wrote:Surprizingly the artificial language named Esperanto is in the list.

I wouldn't call making compound words from other whole words agglutinization. Agglutinizing languages tack on or infix clitics--particles that impart meaning, but generally do not stand on their own as words.


Probably. I have never looked at it. The idea of an artificial easy to learn language is interesting but apparently it's a failed project. That looks like a loss as this article ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Esperanto ) quotes a study which mentions 150 hours learning time for Esperanto compared to 1500 hours for English for somebody speaking French as his/her native language.

Anyways, I'm busy learning more about C++ than I ever wanted to know. Apparently, I learned the Gnu dialect (which makes sense to me) rather than the ISO version which Microsoft slavishly adheres to in its compiler. Apparently, if I parse ASCII chars, I can't use ranges for my case statements, but have to do 90+ case statements to handle letters and numbers. :roll:


I hate the way g++ handles templates, other than that I haven't seen a difference that actually matters in practice. For ranges, perhaps using if statements would make more sense?
~stratum~
mystran
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4796 posts since 11 Feb, 2006, from Helsinki, Finland

Postby mystran; Mon Apr 02, 2018 4:05 am Re: Converted JUCE to American spelling

EvilDragon wrote:
syntonica wrote:
EvilDragon wrote:Well, Hungarian and Finnish are there to screw everything up. Nordic languages are also pretty different to other European languages despite being classified as "north germanic", it is actually more descended from old Norse and borrows from germanic.

Don't diss the Finno-Ugrics! I love me some 27 cases and 53 moods! :lol:


I'm only dissing Hungarians. Finns are lovely folk. To me the two languages don't even sound the same. Finnish is a LOT easier on the ear, for some reason I cannot explain...


The two languages are only distant relatives though. I used to have a school friend that spoke both natively and honestly there's not a whole lot in common with the two in practice. Maybe they share some grammatical structure and other such more abstract features, but really the common roots are long gone and the "similarity" is really more of an academic classification thing at this point.

In comparison, Estonian is actually pretty close to Finnish, to the point where a native Finnish speaker can usually sort of understand a little bit of Estonian or vice versa; there are a lot of common words (or rather words where the common ancestry is obvious; sometimes these have evolved to have slightly different meanings in the two languages which makes things sound a bit funny at times). They are certainly more different than something like Swedish vs. Norwegian (where you can probably have a fairly normal conversation where one person speaks Swedish and the other one speaks Norwegian), but the similarity between Finnish and Estonian is certainly still immediately obvious to anyone who speaks either of the languages. Not sure how obvious it would be to a non-speaker though as each one is pronounced with a fairly distinctly different tone, sort of.
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syntonica
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374 posts since 24 Sep, 2014, from Specific Northwest

Postby syntonica; Mon Apr 02, 2018 8:49 am Re: Converted JUCE to American spelling

stratum wrote:I hate the way g++ handles templates, other than that I haven't seen a difference that actually matters in practice. For ranges, perhaps using if statements would make more sense?

I haven't had to use any templates yet, so I'm unfamiliar with how they are handled. This may be a great personal failing.

But switch with case ranges is so much more elegant than the awful list of if/then/elseifs it was meant to replace. Apparently the C++ gods are more worried about other useless things, like making the stdlib as completely unusable as possible.
stratum
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1676 posts since 29 May, 2012

Postby stratum; Mon Apr 02, 2018 9:09 am Re: Converted JUCE to American spelling

like making the stdlib as completely unusable as possible.


I recall HP asking why they were paying for STL's development during the time they were employing one of its designers.
Another amusing thing was that the c++ inventor used = 0 to mark pure virtual functions because it would be difficult to persuade the standards committee to add a new keyword.
Something else I had found to be weird was that the allocator classes you see in STL collection templates were not allocators at all (Actually I don't remember this one well, it may possibly be about something else, but it was something equally weird. (*)).

So it looks like being as unusable as possible is not intentional.

(*) edit: here it is, if you can figure out what he is talking about, perhaps we can all understand :lol:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LIb3L4vKZ7U
~stratum~
mystran
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4796 posts since 11 Feb, 2006, from Helsinki, Finland

Postby mystran; Mon Apr 02, 2018 11:16 am Re: Converted JUCE to American spelling

syntonica wrote:Anyways, I'm busy learning more about C++ than I ever wanted to know. Apparently, I learned the Gnu dialect (which makes sense to me) rather than the ISO version which Microsoft slavishly adheres to in its compiler. Apparently, if I parse ASCII chars, I can't use ranges for my case statements, but have to do 90+ case statements to handle letters and numbers. :roll:


Microsoft C++ isn't necessarily much closer to the standard, it's just that it has a different set of extensions (and bugs).

For handling ranges in parsers though, what you probably want to do (assuming keeping the code more or less readable is your primary goal) is handle the isolated cases with regular case-labels and then put if(...) conditions for the range tests (or rather character class tests, which are usually worth factoring into a separate function anyway) in the default branch. Another possibility for simple parsers (that only need to handle a few types of non-trivial tokens) is to just let the default case call a function like "parse_symbol_or_number" directly and let it figure out (with if-conditions) if it should parse a number or throw an error for an invalid character.
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fluffy_little_something
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11081 posts since 5 Jun, 2012, from Portugal

Postby fluffy_little_something; Mon Apr 02, 2018 11:46 am Re: Converted JUCE to American spelling

Is this an April Fool's thing? 8)

Anyway, why don't Brits, Americans, Canadians and Aussies do a spelling reform in order to create one official English spelling?
There was such an international standardization of the spelling of the Portuguese language a few years ago...
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syntonica
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374 posts since 24 Sep, 2014, from Specific Northwest

Postby syntonica; Mon Apr 02, 2018 12:53 pm Re: Converted JUCE to American spelling

mystran wrote:For handling ranges in parsers though, what you probably want to do (assuming keeping the code more or less readable is your primary goal) is handle the isolated cases with regular case-labels and then put if(...) conditions for the range tests (or rather character class tests, which are usually worth factoring into a separate function anyway) in the default branch.

Which is what I did. Very annoying and inelegant!

What annoys me most about Microsoft is that I trawled their site for how to open a window in c++. Their reply was, Easy! Just use this code, which was fully incompatible C code originally written for 16-bit. And their programming style--why is everything a typedef of a standard type??!?? When just a plain 'int' won't do... :x
stratum
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1676 posts since 29 May, 2012

Postby stratum; Mon Apr 02, 2018 9:57 pm Re: Converted JUCE to American spelling

syntonica wrote:
mystran wrote:For handling ranges in parsers though, what you probably want to do (assuming keeping the code more or less readable is your primary goal) is handle the isolated cases with regular case-labels and then put if(...) conditions for the range tests (or rather character class tests, which are usually worth factoring into a separate function anyway) in the default branch.

Which is what I did. Very annoying and inelegant!

What annoys me most about Microsoft is that I trawled their site for how to open a window in c++. Their reply was, Easy! Just use this code, which was fully incompatible C code originally written for 16-bit. And their programming style--why is everything a typedef of a standard type??!?? When just a plain 'int' won't do... :x


You just hate them don't you, as if you wouldn't be able to find anything to hate about Apple just as easily? :lol:

Typedefs for standard types is supposed to be done for compatibility across different platforms, but since they are using names like INT and UINT instead of INT32 and UINT32 I guess they would never define those typedefs differently from standard types anyway.

p.s. Visual studio 'start new project' wizard generates the example code you asked to them.
~stratum~
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syntonica
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374 posts since 24 Sep, 2014, from Specific Northwest

Postby syntonica; Tue Apr 03, 2018 8:31 am Re: Converted JUCE to American spelling

stratum wrote:You just hate them don't you, as if you wouldn't be able to find anything to hate about Apple just as easily? :lol:

You haven't heard me when trying to compile my code that's using C, Objective-C, Objective-C++ and C++ then? Unless Objective-C is in complete and utter total control of everything, it's a clangerous freak-out! :scared: :cry:

I'm going to do my next plug-in in strict C. K&R C.

Don't get me started on how inflexible Xcode is, either...

Using int16 and int32, etc., is perfectly acceptable and readable. Having UINT and WITFSTR (or whatever the hell it is to cast a plain C-string) is not. M$ code looks like alphabet soup to me, like they have to balance the number of capitals vs the number of lower case letters used or the alphabet will implode and cause their code to sink like the Titanic.
stratum
KVRAF
 
1676 posts since 29 May, 2012

Postby stratum; Tue Apr 03, 2018 8:34 am Re: Converted JUCE to American spelling

Don't get me started on how inflexible Xcode is, either...


Considering all the key bindings that need to be fixed just after every install, I admire people who can use it...
M$ code looks like alphabet soup to me, like they have to balance the number of capitals vs the number of lower case letters used or the alphabet will implode and cause their code to sink like the Titanic.


When you become a little more familiar with it you will find more real reasons to dislike it, like setlocale failing with UTF-8, and non-unicode 8-bit charset API's being limited to single-byte encodings, forcing you to call 16-bit unicode ones. Not that that's a problem by itself, but if you also need to port the same app to Linux, then it gets ugly.
~stratum~
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syntonica
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374 posts since 24 Sep, 2014, from Specific Northwest

Postby syntonica; Tue Apr 03, 2018 9:01 am Re: Converted JUCE to American spelling

stratum wrote:Considering all the key bindings that need to be fixed just after every install, I admire people who can use it...

I'm a click and drag kinda guy, but I use a laptop, so my hands don't have to move. But their code folding? I just can't even... Useless. And their miasma of a build system? It's nice having ALL the parameters there, but then they go and hide the important stuff, like how to switch from building the debug to the release version... It's well buried. Maybe I do need to learn a key code or two.

I'm just compiling my plugin in VS Community and I like how the keep all their symbols in a separate file. My object code is positively svelte! :lol:

Of course, I have to go change all the /s to \s. That's how often I Windows...
stratum
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1676 posts since 29 May, 2012

Postby stratum; Tue Apr 03, 2018 9:24 am Re: Converted JUCE to American spelling

syntonica wrote:
stratum wrote:Considering all the key bindings that need to be fixed just after every install, I admire people who can use it...
I'm a click and drag kinda guy, but I use a laptop, so my hands don't have to move.


So you don't need the HOME and END keys to go to the beginning and to the end of the current line?
When I install Xcode that's the first thing I change (among some other key bindings) and afterwards I never actually use it.
~stratum~
mystran
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4796 posts since 11 Feb, 2006, from Helsinki, Finland

Postby mystran; Tue Apr 03, 2018 10:53 am Re: Converted JUCE to American spelling

stratum wrote:
Don't get me started on how inflexible Xcode is, either...


Considering all the key bindings that need to be fixed just after every install, I admire people who can use it...


Personally I haven't even figured how to create a project in Xcode (nor do I have any idea which version I even have). I just use a text-editor (eg. Atom) and then build with GNU make.
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