When is enough 'enough'?

Anything about MUSIC but doesn't fit into the forums above.
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tapper mike wrote:Stevie Wonder has to have at least two of everything. That must be great for him to afford it.

Recording should be an event not an excuse to do something because your bored.

Get your act together before you record. Set yourself a recording day once a week and don't record on any other day. It will give you a chance to line up your ducks. Think about what you are going to do and work it out before you do it. If you make the prospect of recording an event rather then the excuse of I've got some time on my hands you increase the possibility of success.

Learn to live with the tools that you have. Make wanting to record something good more important then just fiddling around. You may come up with toi many unfocused ideas rather then a good focused idea that you can bring to fruition.

I know a young guy who plays guitars and sings. He records one song a week. He focuses his attention on doing that one song. Not on facebook or kvr or checking his phone. I've heard a lot of his stuff. Each week his playing gets stronger and more confident as does his singing. It's that single mindedness which is making it a reality for him. He's focusing on being the best him he could be. Not trying to be someone he's not. It's working.

Think of yourself as a Composer first, an arranger second, a musician third and an engineer last.

Do you have a song? Write one. Define the song form, progression and melody line first. Arrange it. What instruments and style do you want it to be in. Think about how you are going to support the melody line. Play it. Remember the song is not just an excuse to play your instrument. The song is the goal. When you are practicing backing tracks and melody lines think is this subtracting from or supporting the foundational elements. Record it. When you treat the song as the first priority rather then just wanting to play your instrument. You can focus in on what is required to make the song happen. It's not a jam. It's a composition with an arrangement. If you are over playing the part or under playing it you are taking away from the song. Play for the song not for your ego as a musician. As an engineer your job is not to rewrite the song. Your job is to give fair representation of the music.

I studied recording engineering under the masters of motown. They would spend three times the amount of time used in recording for mixdown and mastering. Even when a band would have the material down cold before recording it would take at bare minimum an hour. This is after the hours and hours spent getting down the song before they recorded. This isn't a luxury for the studio musician. But studio musicians work from sheet music and there is little tolerance to those who can't sight play/ sight sing on tap. My point is this. Bring your A game to record. If you don't think your songs are worth recording then don't bother. If you don't think your skill level doesn't matter then don't bother. You don't have to be the greatest whatever but you do have to be the best you you have to offer.

Make the most of yourself, for that is all there is of you.

It's not your guitar that is holding you back from playing your best or whatever instrument you have.

When I studied under the masters of motown they kept on reinforcing the dedication to the mix. They would spend three times the amount of time to mixdown and master as it took to record. Take your time with mix down and mastering. Your goal is not to rewrite the song. Listen to it flat for a good long time before you start eq'ing mixing down and adding basic compression and reverb. Treat post production with reverence. Like you are a third person and someone else has just handed you all their hopes and dreams. Don't crush that hard work. Treat it with respect.

Even if the world doesn't give you the respect you deserve you can still have self respect and the pride that comes from a job well done.
a lot has changed since "the masters of motown", I guess I do it all wrong because I cannot dictate what "game" I'm bringing each day...I'm an artist first and foremost and one of the reasons I have no desires to be in any other bands, I do not force creativity.

If someone were to give me your rules the first thing I would do is tear them up and walk out the door. (that does not mean I disagree with everything you said, like I agree it's not the guitar and the last bit of pride that comes from a job well done but that subjective and very hard to have an accurate perspective on whether or not your work is a job well done in your eyes) This may work for you but first I really have no idea what it has to do with the original post and second, while I agree with some of what you say I stand opposed to your dictating of how an artist should do their thing.

As for the original post, I'm not going to list out all my gear...too much time involved. However I agree that there may come a time when enough is enough but that can be subject to change at a drop of a hat due to changing technology. I think there is a big difference between hardware and software in this case though, I find myself backing off on software with every fresh install because I ask myself "how often do I use this" and "is it worth installing something I dont need or use much"? Of course the latter may happen down the road because I might have something not re-installed that might be the perfect thing for a project I'm working on.

The difference with hardware is some hardware wears out and needs replacing, some gets accidentally damaged, other times a vintage piece of gear may become available that I want. Location matters as well, in my old place I could not have a lot of the amps I have and went with buying many sims...now some of the sims are like a lot of software, sitting in a lockbox waiting for the time I need it...if I need it and I can use my amps.

There is a point where I will say enough is enough and then there is what I would compare to a wave receding where either stuff gets left behind or just becomes obsolete. It's a constantly changing view, for instance 2012 has brought me very little in new software. I have pretty much got over the urge to get everything free like so many of us have been through and I'm starting to get to deeper levels of understanding and appreciation for my software. I am down to some basic instruments and fx that are my go to, given the fact I have barely scratched the surface with much of what I have I dont need to get more of the same, just explore deeper into what I have.

I think that many people go through this, it will be interesting to see what happens now hat the software wave is rolling back in fueled by 64 bit. It all comes in cycles imo, but I have found that over the last few years when it comes to software my impulse buys have decreased significantly. I look at this lock box that is full of software that I may never use again but some I cant sell, others I can but are so obsolete no one would buy it and others I cannot get myself to say "enough is enough" and trash because in all honesty it's not like it takes much space to store discs and you never know.

In my latest install there is a lot that has not gone back in my machine because I find that my host of choice (samplitude) has many of those bases covered quite well and one thing I have grown tired of is "samplitude cannot find..." because I hadn't installed something or may not use something anymore (I have zillions of unfinished pieces, many of which I dont go back to because of this). Samplitude is 64 bit, those plugs in samp I use will always be in the same place and maybe a couple of years down the road I might want to finish something without having to work in new plugs...a good example is samples, they can become obsolete quickly and be very time consuming to replace with newer samples.

I guess there is a balance in there somewhere but in my life what I have found is that in my youth I made a lot of stupid rules for myself and now that I am breaking all those rules I see how much I held myself back...so I say go with the flow...enough may be too much or enough now and no where near enough a few years down the road...naturally you should be able to do a lot with very little these days, but do not allow that to dictate what you buy or do not buy in the future. :)
The highest form of knowledge is empathy, for it requires us to suspend our egos and live in another's world. It requires profound, purpose‐larger‐than‐the‐self kind of understanding.

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Hundreds of years ago the question was: who has the bigger organ? :hihi:

Yet, what Bach could do with one apparently was more important than just the size.

During the Classical and Romantic eras, composers didn't own orchestras, yet the really talented ones had access to them and could make extraordinary demands. Without the additional instruments, how could the likes of Berlioz and Wagner really do their thing?

I suspect one of the problems currently facing the home studio musician is that we're no longer in an era in which only a few have access to really good tools. Not too long ago, few people owned Moogs, Synclaviers, etc. Nowadays, you have to have lots of stuff to try to find your own sound.

The bottom line tends to still be pretty much the same: some do great things with a simple setup, yet others who never seem to have enough also can get it done.

And in music there will probably always be some legend of a Robert Johnson who is discovered in a poor rural area just singing and playing a cheap guitar. But I doubt any of us fall into that category...
Last edited by rp314 on Wed Nov 14, 2012 8:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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The core of my frustration is being in a place where I don't have the time to indulge in learning all of the fabulous softs that I have licenses for-the family situation that I'm in takes all my waking time, and then some.

So with me it's all a mental exercise at this point.

As far as the tools: We who indulge in KVR are in the epicenter of profound change and growth as the tools that tech savvy musicians such as ourselves use are revolutionized.

I have no doubts that as the PC becomes more and more capable of doing significant DSP, the tools will become much more sophisticated, and easier to use-that must evolve hand in hand for it all to more forward in an effective, practical, way.

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Heres what I currently have.

2011 Macbook Pro (i7 2.4Ghz Quad, 4Gb Ram, 15" screen)

Roland / Cakewalk A-800 Pro MIDI Keyboard

Akai LPK25

KRK KNS8400 Headphones

Ableton Live 8

Izotope Vinyl
Izotope Trash
U&I Metasynth
D16 Silver Line Collection
D16 Classic Boxes Collection
Fabfilter Creative Bundle
Fxpansion BFD Eco
Fxpansion DCAM Dynamics
Fxpansion DCAM Synthsquad
Fxpansion Etch
Fxpansion Geist
Fxpansion Maul
Fxpansion Tremor
Native Instruments Massive
Native Instruments Reaktor
Sonic Charge Bitspeek
Sonic Charge Permut8
Twisted Tools Buffeater
Twisted Tools Rolodecks
U-HE A.C.E
U-HE D.I.V.A
U-HE UHBIK
U-HE Tyrell N6 v2
Waves NLS
Waves Kramer Bundle
Twisted Tools Buffeater & Rolodecks Pro

So the big question I guess is do I feel complete yet?

Not yet ..

I still want the following things before I feel completed
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Apogee Duet II : Since getting a Mac I have sold my Propellerhead Balance soundcard and have decided to get this. I was looking at the features of the baby face, but I don't wan't that now, after reading enough reviews of the Duet II. I am not really going to be doing some huge recording sessions, so not having a ton of I/O won't kill me. I am kind of a audiophile wannabe, I am super picky about sound quality (I guess most of us are?) so I really don't want a badly designed DAC.

Quik Lok Z-250 Dual Level Workstation Desk : I need a desk specifically for working on music with. I don't have alot of space, but I think my creativity zone needs a place of it's own.

Zoom H2N Handheld recorder : I need something for sampling on the go, and I have decided to get this. It's cheap and certainly no Nagra SD. However I think it will be more than sufficient for capturing sample material with.

Blue Baby Bottle Microphone W/Shock Mount: I want a good all rounder microphone and I decided up on this for vocal and instrument recordings.

Ableton Push : I only work with LIVE so this is kind of a must have. I did own a APC40 at one point and I really enjoyed working with it, so i know I will probably enjoy this as well. It also doubles as a MPC style drum pad.

Izotope Mix and Master Bundle - I sifted through tons of Vintage Console strip emulations and various other setups but I really like how Izotope have kind of created a swiss army solution.

Izotope Trash 2 Upgrade - I love multi-band distortion! I was eyeing up Ohmicide for a bit, but I really think this, Maul & Saturn are going to pretty much cover my distortion needs.

Izotope Nectar - Going to do vocal recordings with that Baby Blue so I will need some sort of vocal strip.

Ipad - I saw more demos of the Lemur app and I am sold. I have TouchOSC on my iPhone and it's pretty neat having a touch screen controller, not to mention super useful!

NO im not rich, NO i won't be getting this list of stuff finished anytime soon. It will all take time and I am going to be patient :)

I just have a plan and Im sticking through with it 8)
Last edited by V0RT3X on Wed Nov 14, 2012 9:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
:borg:

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Quick Q:

I've had a pair of Sennheiser MD-441's for years, any recs for either a portable and/or stationary pre? They've been rather difficult to match up in the past due to their low output.

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JoeCat wrote:There's a school of though in psychiatry/psychology that too much choice is counter-productive and makes us unhappy.
In the documentary "Imaginary Landscapes", Brian Eno points out a DX-7 and says that it makes tens of thousands of sounds. He then points to an electric guitar and says that it makes only one kind of sound and that it is the superior instrument. Later in the film he points out a mixing desk and says that it is his instrument now.

I do not necessarily agree with him, but it is a very painterly way of looking at electronic music.

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goldenanalog wrote:The core of my frustration is being in a place where I don't have the time to indulge in learning all of the fabulous softs that I have licenses for-the family situation that I'm in takes all my waking time, and then some.

So with me it's all a mental exercise at this point.
I don't agree. Everyone love massive, right? Not me. I don't hate it or anything but I did that "delve in and learn it thing" and it didn't sound any different than a couple of the presets. Sure, I'm not a synth guru but for me I need glitter on the front end. Point being, there are always temptations and if I feel it's going to aid my journey, I'ma buy it.

Omnisphere is the one synth that was really more than I needed. I OBVIOUSLY had my money burning a hole in my pocket when I got that! Btw though, if "baking" your own sound, I feel it sounds far better.

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I was speaking from strictly a personal perspective, hibidy; not generalizing.

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goldenanalog wrote:I was speaking from strictly a personal perspective, hibidy; not generalizing.
Oh, sorry

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hibidy wrote:
goldenanalog wrote:The core of my frustration is being in a place where I don't have the time to indulge in learning all of the fabulous softs that I have licenses for-the family situation that I'm in takes all my waking time, and then some.

So with me it's all a mental exercise at this point.
I don't agree. Everyone love massive, right? Not me. I don't hate it or anything but I did that "delve in and learn it thing" and it didn't sound any different than a couple of the presets. Sure, I'm not a synth guru but for me I need glitter on the front end. Point being, there are always temptations and if I feel it's going to aid my journey, I'ma buy it.

Omnisphere is the one synth that was really more than I needed. I OBVIOUSLY had my money burning a hole in my pocket when I got that! Btw though, if "baking" your own sound, I feel it sounds far better.
I guess that it helps to come from a place of old and/or broken pianos, synthesizers, etc. as well as reel-to-reel tape decks with lots of mileage...

Even if NI's Massive or Eric's Omnisphere wasn't (or isn't) your cup-of-tea, compared to the tools that I started out with in the 70's--both softs may as well have come from Heaven itself.

And as for the Yamaha DX-7....in my book, it is arguably the best synth that I can think of for giving one 'listener's fatigue'...12-bit DAC's summing 8-bit audio...it was revolutionary in the early 80's, but by today's standards-it actually had a pretty limited range of sounds where it sounded good IMHO.

Edit: No, prob, hibidy-It was my fault for not being clear in my statement-RJH

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20 carrots a day is more than enough.

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"Enough" is never enough.
http://sendy.bandcamp.com/releases < My new album at Bandcamp! Now pay what you like!

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tapper mike wrote:Recording should be an event not an excuse to do something because your bored
says who?

Sometimes I wonder if the 'everyone needs to cut down gear' threads are driven by people who have difficulty letting go of ideas like making recording 'an event'. Given by the difficulties they often state in being able to focus just because they have 'too many options' I wonder if the actual problem is more to do with just letting go and experimenting or improvising without prior planning.

What's wrong with grabbing a tool you've not learned inside and out and seeing what you can do with it. What's wrong with playing with something new or weird or broken? What's wrong with playing?

Ah, yes. Proper musicians spend all their time practicing scales and learning theory so they can have 'recording events'. Meh.

If you look at the art world, you find all sorts of philosophical ideas about letting go of dogma, and embracing the random, chance, the subconscious, synchronicity. I wonder why there's such an ingrained resistance to some of that amongst people here; that notion that experimentation is inherently wrong, that everything needs to fit within an 'authorised' framework of tradition or knowledge or habit.

I love the contradiction that doing something naively risks cliches, but rote-learned ingrained habits and patterns are okay.

"this is a chord, this is another, this is a third. Now form a band"

Really, what better time to indulge in playing than when bored?
Think of yourself as a Composer first, an arranger second, a musician third and an engineer last.
Or dont think of yourself as anything. Forget distinctions, stratifications, niches, genres, preconceptions. Just do. You may surprise yourself.
my other modular synth is a bugbrand

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whyterabbyt wrote:
tapper mike wrote:Recording should be an event not an excuse to do something because your bored
says who?

Sometimes I wonder if the 'everyone needs to cut down gear' threads are driven by people who have difficulty letting go of ideas like making recording 'an event'. Given by the difficulties they often state in being able to focus just because they have 'too many options' I wonder if the actual problem is more to do with just letting go and experimenting or improvising without prior planning.

What's wrong with grabbing a tool you've not learned inside and out and seeing what you can do with it. What's wrong with playing with something new or weird or broken? What's wrong with playing?

Ah, yes. Proper musicians spend all their time practicing scales and learning theory so they can have 'recording events'. Meh.

If you look at the art world, you find all sorts of philosophical ideas about letting go of dogma, and embracing the random, chance, the subconscious, synchronicity. I wonder why there's such an ingrained resistance to some of that amongst people here; that notion that experimentation is inherently wrong, that everything needs to fit within an 'authorised' framework of tradition or knowledge or habit.

I love the contradiction that doing something naively risks cliches, but rote-learned ingrained habits and patterns are okay.

"this is a chord, this is another, this is a third. Now form a band"

Really, what better time to indulge in playing than when bored?
Think of yourself as a Composer first, an arranger second, a musician third and an engineer last.
Or dont think of yourself as anything. Forget distinctions, stratifications, niches, genres, preconceptions. Just do. You may surprise yourself.
+1

Wise words...
Barry
If a billion people believe a stupid thing it is still a stupid thing

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Agreed. No one should be dictating to others how they approach music.

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