What kind of music you'd hate?

[jancivil]

only liking this stuff due to peer pressure. Especially when you're young, that can be a huge factor, and you can be quite closed minded without realising it.

I was wide open as a young teen. I received a lot from my father and I underwent some training from about the age of ten, so I was less susceptible to giving a shit about what other kids thought about music. I was very much a misfit and I was never disposed so well to people, out of being so ill and medicated. Epinephrine in order to breathe freely, I was a wreck.

But as time went on I began to hate this kind of boogie, party rock (and this British faux blues rock). But it was not a predisposition against a 'genre', and it had a lot to do with how people behaved. They dressed like hippies but were basically mean, misogynistic, reactive people that a lot of are probably Tea Party reactionaries today.

I think a musical education has to be implemented in school and early. I think it helpful to the mind. I think it would mitigate the kind of narrow-mindedness that leads to Showtek as a way of life.

[jancivil]

Geeesh....I only mentioned the idea of a formula that gets followed ...

Yeah, he created a whole story out of that, bypassing what you said completely. Which is a story about himself.

[Hink]

Geeesh....I only mentioned the idea of a formula that gets followed ...

Honestly...look what happens every time a band stretches its collective wings...what do you hear from fans?! Sell out!!! What ?????

Sorry if you took offense Barry, I honestly thought you would see my point because I thought we were more alike on this subject than it appears we are (my bad). I kind of figured you would understand given our long term friendship, I thought I could speak openly with you (my bad again? ) I was somewhat taken aback by YOU saying that, I appreciate you pointing out my err. No offense was intended

Formulas in music have been followed long before Nickleback was around, even before any of them were born...so why put it on Nickleback? That's pointing fingers, not my thing. I mean I love the blues, but a lot of blues is the same formula over and over, if I shot down one band for that but enjoyed another entire genre that does that, that would be very hypocritical. I try very hard not to stereo type, I try not to be prejudice (note as I read it the origin of prejudice is to pre-judge, which imo is as weak as being a hater), I try to take things on one at a time and decide if I like it or not. I also fail at this, sometimes as often as I succeed, but I do my best to live by my values. I really do not care if you follow my values but not one person on this earth has the right to tell me what my values are or what I have the right to say, not even a friend as good as you. If people dont like what I have to say, ignore me. If people cannot ignore me do not blame me for them being very, very weak individuals.

Could your point have been as easily made without taking a shot at another artist(s)...I say yes and I say especially with you as you are always pretty much the gentleman, I assumed ( once again my bad) you would understand that. (I did indeed go way out of my way to say that it was only my opinion with bold letters, huge letters and arrows)...I guess it's true haters gotta hate, I just dont see you, my friend, as a hater (not now not ever). But haters will hate and haters are extremely weak people imho...the proof is in this thread...hate is a weakness...if one is a hater imo one is very weak (again Barry in my book you are not a hater).

The only thing weaker than haters is the followers of that hate, those who follow the crowd to build up their own self esteem, those who attack children like Rebecca Black..Children Barry, Children...it's lame...Go look at the threads at her, I didn't attack her...what good would it do? Big people with big talk picking on children. Again imo it's all about jealousy, maybe I am wrong but all I saw when I read those threads was a bunch of whiners (many of which are very, very good friends such as you I value very much in my life) whining because they spent all this time not getting to where this young girl got...the funny thing is it's the haters that made her and she is doing better (if you judge by recognition) than 99.9% of the members here including me and you. However I know that recognition is not why I do so I have no reason to hate her or hate at her.

Some people feel they are entitled to something because they have played an instrument for a long time, I have played an instrument for a very long time and I agree, I am entitled to exactly what I derive from my playing...joy Others get jealous because they think they are entitled to more

What really gets me is when I was younger and threw around words like hate I cheated myself out of some good music but now that I am older and those same artists are older too I see them now and myself now and I am not jealous anymore...in fact I feel sorry for some...dreams change, sometimes (actually I think more often than not) dreams once realized are not all that they were cracked up to be...but again that's just me and how things have gone on my journey through life (I wonder how many more time I will have to say it's just my opinion here before people understand it's just my opinion )

Do you think the world would be a better place without hate, without prejudice, without stereotypes? I do

You bet a lot of artists sell out, so what? It's their business, a lot of those who did back in the day are doing quite well now. Maybe their passion is being the rock star and not the music (not mine to say, just suggesting a possibility). If that's the case again that's their business...not mine...I'll find more music that I like as there is plenty of music out there. That's why I was never into the radio, my tastes are not mainstream, but I dont fault other people who's taste are mainstream. I feel I was selling out when I went into retail and it's a big part of why I left, I couldn't do it anymore. I felt cheap, but again (and please take note of this, I felt...not you, not nickleback, not obama not spongebob, not Kvr,..I felt)

You see all this beautiful gear out there for us?...imho you can thank the sell outs to some extent...they helped to create the dream which created the marketplace for companies to manufacture products that will help others follow their dreams. So while I do not care for their music, I see a silver lining. Like I said sometimes by looking closely at why I dislike something I learn more about myself and discover positive things. I find appreciation and whether it be here at KvR or anywhere else I would rather show appreciation than hate...

>>>>>>>>>>again YMMV and thats fine I am no way saying that everyone should live this way or as I say I just have as much right to state my opinion as anyone else and anyone who doesn't ;ike it grab a mod and get me banned if they feel I hurt KvR<<<<<<<<<<

[lotus2035]

Jancivil I don't have the time to write another mega post in response so I'll just leave this here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_8jOR8ti08

[hibidy]

I'm all for it.

I think that this thread has run it's course.

[Hink]

I think hating certain types of art is fine, provided you don't stop others enjoying it, and you have fun with it rather than letting it fill you up.

The hate I feel when I think about the phrase "music you hate" is the kind of hate borne from passion. When I listen to that Showtek-style EDM that I love to rant on about, it honestly makes me feel queasy. It's grody, like a rotting carcass to me. It's like someone killed music and is making it's corpse dance. This goes beyond "I don't like it" or "not my thing".

You could effectively torture me with that stuff. I'd tell you anything you wanted to hear just to increase my chances of getting away from it by 0.1%. I hate it because it's getting more and more popular, and it feels to me more about fasion than any love of sound or music. The culture that comes with it spreads disinformation about music and casualizes the process of creation, turning it into something like playing Angry Birds.

I can imagine someone who likes this style of EDM reading my posts and either thinking "what a jerk, they just don't get it!" or possibly taking a step back and realizing that they're only liking this stuff due to peer pressure. Especially when you're young, that can be a huge factor, and you can be quite closed minded without realising it. (Speaking from experience, of course).

Worst case scenario: Someone thinks I'm a jerk. Best case scenario: They think about the big picture in music, and this either reaffirms their love of Showtek, or causes them to cast their net wider. Either way it's a win.

If you have a viewpoint that's right for you, no amount of other people naysaying it will steer you from your path. If they do, it just wasn't right for you. That's my experience, anyway. No amount of people telling me my music sounds like a drumkit falling down the stairs has stopped me from making music that sounds, to some people, like a drumkit falling down the stairs

All that said, over time, the ratio to what I enjoy to what I don't in music has only ever expanded in favour of the liking. I think as you get older you start to see more of what you like in the things that you previously didn't like. You become less of a snob and more open-minded. But it's good to be not so open-minded that you value everything, because that robs your world of meaning.

very well said Sendy I gotta say I never thought of the passion angle from disliking something and you make a good point. But I would like to go back to one of the first hings I said yesterday that was actually called bullshit...I saved my life with positive affirmations...that is not bullshit and in fact quite well documented in my VA records. I try very hard in my posts (especially in this thread) to state that this is just my opinion and how I try to live my life because it works for me but

You see I had a bad coke habit, I was in a band (my last band, I have no desire to be in a band now still) that was all about coke. We sold it, it paid for our gear, we never played without it (my gf and me use to walk into practice pretending to fight just so the drummer would break out the lines), I got to the point where I could not play without coke at all. August 26th 1993 I was looking at my catalogs, dreaming of my dream studio looking at my one guitar and small amp (all my gear had been stolen a couple years before after I left the band because the cops were getting too close and I wallowed in coke alone) and I realized that my dream studio would never be as long as cocaine was in my life so I decided to stop.

Stopping coke was not easy but even harder was learning to play without the damn drug because the drug had taken my passion and left a shell. I had to rewrite those tapes in my head and learn to like playing without coke. That took positives, no negatives...I would recite over and over things like "I am a better player coke free", "I like playing straight", never using any negative words because even changing it around to say "I like playing without coke" is negative. Some called this pop physcology but I dont care because it does work and it worked for me. But to work one must commit to it and must keep things in the positive.

When I made my decision to clean up I went to the VA, they helped me a lot of course but they insisted I go to AA/NA and other 12 step programs and I have a problem saying "I am powerless over drugs and alcohol"...I prefer empowerment and started with an organization called Rational Recovery which used CBT. It was called the thinking man's approach to recovery and though RR went to a for profit organization it had a much lower recidivism rate (12 step programs have a higher rate of failure than quitting cold turkey with no help). The non profit folk start SMART Recovery which to my understanding is the same as RR was...I use to run RR meetings (I even started the first non 12 step recovery program for transgendered people in the country) and well going on 21 years later I haven't touched coke at all since, I have well beyond my dream studio and I love playing...so you see how positive affirmations saved me from myself.

One downside though is I constantly find myself leaving out negative words when I make posts here, on FB and other places...I might mean to say "I cannot stab you in the back" but say "I can stab you in the back" (just an example) which I then do a big But I would rather correct my err than to live in the negative and for some reason that seems to upset people. It's funny, I am a sensitive man, I try to be a kind man, I think I am pretty generous and try to be very open (hard not to do when you wear your emotions on your sleeves as I ofetn do)...but again it really seems to upset people.

I honestly would love to see a place where hate is not encouraged, being sensitive to others is a good thing and people show each other respect...I will always try to live that way...but boy does that seem to upset people and they just wait for me to make a typo or err as every human does and the pounce on me for being a non perfect human being...I will never understand haters...it takes too much work to hate, please if someone doesn't like me I will not be offended by that person ignoring me or leaving me be...it beats the pushing of hate, but haters imho are weak so what are you going to do
0.

edit: one other thing...you could just as easily me tortured by music I love if iz were forced to listen to it over and over

[RunBeerRun]

"The Who". Come on, nobody plays pinball by intuition, that's an insult.

Not wanting to interrupt the discussions here, it just looked like it had run its course.

[jancivil]

Geeesh....I only mentioned the idea of a formula that gets followed ...

Could your point have been as easily made without taking a shot at another artist(s)...I say yes and I say especially with you as you are always pretty much the gentleman, I assumed ( once again my bad) you would understand that. (I did indeed go way out of my way to say that it was only my opinion with bold letters, huge letters and arrows)...I guess it's true haters gotta hate, I just dont see you, my friend, as a hater (not now not ever). But haters will hate and haters are extremely weak people imho...the proof is in this thread...hate is a weakness...if one is a hater imo one is very weak (again Barry in my book you are not a hater).

You assumed that he would be like you, gentlemen don't point fingers. He said something true, and that is a quick way of saying it. So it is 'ungentlemanly' to say this true thing. It's out of bounds, if only because it's another window in which to display this thing you believe about yourself, and in relation to others. Again, you are actively discouraging discourse. You are in your typical pagro manner telling people what they are, 'you are weak'. This violates the spirit of the rules here, but I suppose not the letter since you haven't named names, but it's perfectly sheer you are insulting people.

I wish I could be in threads and have this crap hidden.
I know you can't be reached and you have told me straight up you will never engage me. But I will address these things, if only because of the amount of space you're stealing from the room. I find it a matter of my own ethics to do so. You look

[ontol]

Thanks for saving us all. really. every time. righter of rights, wronger of wrongs.

[V0RT3X]

I listen to anything that sounds good. I don't discriminate unless it absolutely f**king sucks, and if it does I usually won't bother saying it does.

I generally like music that the artist puts a lot of "feeling" into vs pumping out what they think the masses want.

[chk071]

I listen to anything that sounds good. I don't discriminate unless it absolutely f**king sucks, and if it does I usually won't bother saying it does.

I generally like music that the artist puts a lot of "feeling" into vs pumping out what they think the masses want.

I only can agree. When you're younger fashion and being hip plays a role. Growing older, it matters less and less, which is good.

[hibidy]

I listen to anything that sounds good. I don't discriminate unless it absolutely f**king sucks, and if it does I usually won't bother saying it does.

I generally like music that the artist puts a lot of "feeling" into vs pumping out what they think the masses want.

I only can agree. When you're younger fashion and being hip plays a role. Growing older, it matters less and less, which is good.

I really enjoy all my toys. And though I don't share usually (maybe someday) I'm impressed with the eclectic abilities that all this tech brings. But I hate overdone and the current pop/rap/autotunny/ohohoh thing just rubs me the wrong way.

I don't know if my music has much feeling though I mean, sometimes.

[jancivil]

being sensitive to others is a good thing and people show each other respect...

So, see if you can eschew telling people that hate some music they are 'haters', and talking about spreading hatred. See if you can stop telling people what they are. See if you can avoid taking over a thread in music theory going over history about how people are (that were invested in an idea), and characterizing the people that actually contribute to the thing (unlike you taking it as another opportunity to go on about how people are) as big meanies. You talk a lot about how people should be, but you might want to look in the mirror, ONE TIME.

See if you can be more considerate, just basically. Going on and on about hate, and prejudice. Maybe people know what they don't like, maybe someone prejudges all country or all classical, maybe one has enough exposure to come away with 'I hate that shit'; but see if you can take what people actually say to go on rather than this overarching, lecturing moralizing. I for one am not upset because you're nice, but because you're stealing the room. It isn't nice, in my estimatation, what you did here. It's "look at me, Hink, the one nice person here, you weak-ass haters". I said it comes across to me as a recovered hater, like a recovered alcoholic. In other words, a dry drunk.

See if you can get with the program just a little.

[jancivil]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tPoAWN09Uy8&feature=kp

[Hink]

I listen to anything that sounds good. I don't discriminate unless it absolutely f**king sucks, and if it does I usually won't bother saying it does.

I generally like music that the artist puts a lot of "feeling" into vs pumping out what they think the masses want.

I only can agree. When you're younger fashion and being hip plays a role. Growing older, it matters less and less, which is good.

+1, +1...it's amazing how your world opens up when you open your mind some. A closed mind is useless. When I was young I was so closed minded, I had stupid rules based on my wanting to fit in with my peers, spent too much time trying to prove myself. First most of those peers were as ignorant as I was, one of those things you discover over the years. Those around you that acted better than everyone else was going through many of the same things as you but were afraid. In music (and I'll use guitar players as an example because that's what I am) I would think "this cant be right, this is too easy". My guitar player friends would often say "you're not playing that right"...but not just to me but to everyone.

I flashback to jams where everyone is standing around with the

l:"what do you want to play?"

"I dont know, do you know this song"

then another musician pops in says "I dont know that song, how about this song"

"I dontknow that but let's play this"



"wait, wait, stop...you're not playing it right...it goes like this"

"No, no, it goes like this"

"no you're wrong, let's play this"

"wait, you're not playing it right...you dont know how to play"

"no you dont know how to play" :l

the thing is none of us were always right and the truth is sometimes it didn't matter. For instance I never played guitar solos note for note and as such I would get a lot of the above. In hindsight I see we were all just learning, learning from your mistakes and learning by mistake (the latter being accidental discovery) are great ways to learn. My sig use to read "I never learned anything by being right" and for me that works well (mind you for me, no one else here was raised in my neighborhood, among my peers, by my parents...typically I would think that would be taken for granted but I must make such disclaimers it appears), Of course to learn from your mistakes you do need to admit you r errs and accept that you made a mistake. Sometimes I was right and it took a lot of convincing years later that I was right.

I know I was building chops, learning techniques and developing my own style now. I know now that some of those egotists (I was always the guitar player with low self esteem ) haven't touched a guitar since we graduated high school because their passion were elsewhere. We were all young, we were all ignorant (in fact we all still ignorant on some things, that's life). It would have been nice for some tolerance back then but we were teenage boys and we all grew up (well some anyhow ) and did our own things. That's why I like facebook because I have connected with so many of those people and see we are all the same, we have our ups and downs, good times and bad times because that is how life goes.

This is why I do not wish to associate the word hate with music (and in the bigger picture like I said I try to keep hate out of my life), it accomplishes nothing except makes the hater look pretty ignorant imo. I am kind of surprised when such an attitude comes out of my peers these days, it happens with gear, it happens with talent but typically from the same type personalities. Fortunatley it's more and more rare as I age, but still it surprises me and I dont care for it.

Perhaps hate is the muse for some people and that's fine by me (however it's doubtful I would be compatible in a band situation with such people, which again is fine), but like I say hate is toxic for me. I am not talking about the word hate, I am talking about the concept of an extreme dislike for something or someone it makes you lash out at others, act the fool, want to fight, make personal attacks and such. (you can argue one's point without insulting them, in fact almost 100% of the time more is gained from the debate when it is civil)

So after I learned these lessons I started breaking those rules...listening to bands that I hated, trying things I didn't like and breaking the stupid rules I made for myself. I can honestly say opening my mind like that has never been negative, accepting of change and accepting I am not always right has never been negative...now I dont always have huge inspirational breakthroughs, but I still grow and that's what life is about imho (again, because it's KvR I'll state my disclaimer again...In My Opinion which not stated as fact and surely not suggesting my way is right, for now it's right for me but that could change too). I have had some incredible moments as a result of breaking those rules though, so much so I am glad I made them when I was a youngster, I am also glad I grew out of that

So now I wont use demeaning words when talking about the work of other artists (I wish to take this concept more into other ares of my life and I have but PTSD sometimes takes over, like when someone cuts me off driving). if I see something I think I can help them with I'll try but it's up to them if they take the advise and if they do not no offense is taken. I will not be aggressive toward others, I will attack others and I will not try to bring down others. Maybe when I was a i kid we thought beating other people down was a sign of strength now I know that is wrong. Hate is toxic, it spreads like wildfire and is for those who are very weak...hate is the easy way out...you know like the little child who's mother says "you're grounded" and the child starts yelling and crying "I hate you"...that's expected from children...not from adults. I can express myself in many better ways, I no more words now ...when we err we admit it, apologize and fix what we can, learn from it and move on...anything less imho (note my disclaimer still stands) is going back to being a child. That's not how I was raised.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^all that I call pride and respect....pretty simple tbh