has the term producer changed in modern indie music

[robogone]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Txsa6ublDU

[debra1rlo]

There is trouble
in the studios
There is trouble
with the bees
Because musos call
themselves producers
And producers say
"bitch, please"

(yes, I know, super topical doing a parody of a 70s Rush song )

[Tricky-Loops]

Don't depreciate bees!

They're making one of the finest product of the world, and they're making a great sound, too, which sounds better than 80 % of all supersaws...

[trimph1]

There is trouble
in the studios
There is trouble
with the bees
Because musos call
themselves producers
And producers say
"bitch, please"

(yes, I know, super topical doing a parody of a 70s Rush song )

But it still works.

[wavephonic]

generally I don't care how a song is made before I listen, 1st I want to hear it, if it moves me then I think theres something there regardless of how it was created. the politics of process can divide us, which is NOT a good thing.
way back it was mostly just a bunch of musicians on a website sharing their music, some were bands, others left the band scene and started recording at home to keep the drive alive. yup, much has changed with loop makers, samples, cool software and more and more powerful computers emerged in house, so naturally the masses became more involved. if you had musical tendencies then you gravitated to that rather than woodworking or graphics etc. although I do think more young people should try to learn an instrument, it can only help in your ability to create something that comes from inside your soul, rather than just the box.
maybe the word producer separates from musicians who actually play instruments in their song creation as opposed to people who create with other methods, I dunno, is that some sort of prejudice. to me, just because I mix, master or whatever other crap I do with my music doesn't make me anything more than just a musician.
I say, just create, we get ideas from it all, which IS a good thing

[robogone]

There is trouble
in the studios
There is trouble
with the bees
Because musos call
themselves producers
And producers say
"bitch, please"

(yes, I know, super topical doing a parody of a 70s Rush song )

The trouble with 'producers'
(And they're quite convinced they're right)
They say theory's just too tough for me
And they grab a cracked Live Lite
But musos can't help their feelings
If their music's not for dance
And they wonder why the kiddies
Can't be happy with their tarnce

[debra1rlo]

There is trouble
in the studios
There is trouble
with the bees
Because musos call
themselves producers
And producers say
"bitch, please"

(yes, I know, super topical doing a parody of a 70s Rush song )

The trouble with 'producers'
(And they're quite convinced they're right)
They say theory's just too tough for me
And they grab a cracked Live Lite
But musos can't help their feelings
If their music's not for dance
And they wonder why the kiddies
Can't be happy with their tarnce

[jancivil]

generally I don't care how a song is made before I listen, 1st I want to hear it, if it moves me then I think theres something there regardless of how it was created. the politics of process can divide us, which is NOT a good thing.

Well, I would only ever hear about the whole thing from KVR, it is not something I would seek out. I would hear pop music influenced by club four-on-the-floor in the Jack In the Box, or something in a scene in a crime show on TV and not really care why. I hear repetitive mechanical electro scoring in action scenes on TV and now I know what software every hack relies on. And it's understandable, that is assembly line work, that is someone that must produce. But it's a culture I am out of step with with more organically than having to think about where to draw a division.

I don't know about the history, it doesn't change one thing for me to read it. My remarks are I think not that hard to place more particularly. As to "politics divide us", well, I don't think music unites us. I think subjecting music to political ideology is not right. I feel sure my rhetoric controls nobody's next move.

I will learn from music or I won't; other than that it's entertainment. I reckon when someone has never played an instrument (or sang), and there is nobody in the process that has, I have nothing to gain from the experience of their production. I think that, per a process out of a lack of experience in music [for someone making music], a predictive outlook, or "prejudice" if you like is going to give me a probability of ~100%. Guesswork in step-entry in a piano roll won't at all replace having made things happen for real for years, out of knowledge, and it shows. It's not a lot of skin off my ass, but the existence [and acceptance and celebrity] of music made by people that don't care enough to get their hand in for real has an effect on the whole, and it is a degrading effect.

Yet, if someone with a background in music makes a house track, it might be fantastic and rich.

[lotus2035]

BTW, in old-worlde terminology, I think Goldie was a good example of a producer. He'd come into the studio and be like "can you make the beat, like, go whizzing into the air and sound like it's breaking into shards and firing pieces of it's-self at the dancefloor" and Rob Playford (the engineer) would make it happen.

Yeah I always wanted to punch Goldie's (gold) teeth out for taking the credit for Timeless. And that album is held up as a DnB classic which I wouldn't mind so much if it was marketed as Playford's work not that other muppet.

[Sendy]

The drum and bass scene was Goldie's toy. Ever wondered what happened to the promising personalities that put one record out then disappeared? Disagreement with the Gold One. I agree that it's a shame Playford didn't get more props for Timeless. Coming up with ideas is one thing, putting them into practice in a cohesive way across an album is something else entirely.

Engineers would talk about working with Goldie being like having a million ideas fired at you, and you having to pick the best ones while trying to keep up and juggling everything else without dropping it. That sounds an awful lot like working alone to me

He's also said some pretty dumb shit on TV about DJs and producers being superior to musicians who "just play and write sheet music". Make of that what you will

[Zombie Queen]

I reckon when someone has never played an instrument (or sang), and there is nobody in the process that has, I have nothing to gain from the experience of their production.

I think that's quite experience narrowing approach. I understand what it is aimed at, but it will also slash tape manipulation artists, like say Negativland, lots of noise artists, ambient, turntablism... a whole universe of experimental sounds that don't require any instrumentalist or a singer. I am no connoisseur of modern electronic pop, so to say, but I was intrigued by Sendy's post about something that she particularly disliked, Slowtech, or some similarly named enterprise... I checked this on YT and while I wouldn't put it on my player, it was not bad. I think, it's nice people can express themselves through 'lego' blocks, it sort of kills the music in the traditional sense and it's considerably rising the noise floor or uninspired sound recordings, but it's fine with me. Anyway, I though it was rather interesting, way better than 90s euro disco, as I recall it, or Freddie singing 'mama!'. Personally, I like the way pulp-pop is heading.

[jancivil]

I reckon when someone has never played an instrument (or sang), and there is nobody in the process that has, I have nothing to gain from the experience of their production.

I think that's quite experience narrowing approach. I understand what it is aimed at, but it will also slash tape manipulation artists, like say Negativland, lots of noise artists, ambient, turntablism... a whole universe of experimental sounds that don't require any instrumentalist or a singer.

You've cherry-picked that thing and skewed it to a purpose. For instance, you have me saying that instrument-playing or singing has to be present in the product. I did not say that. In fact, I do many things where that is not present.

My focus at SFCM was tape manipulation. Your story "experience-narrowing approach" is toss. I am saying that zero musicianship is what it is, to me. I don't think ShowTech is at all nice, I think it's utter pollution. You couldn't illustrate zero musicianship yet they produce any better than that.

I heard Negativland. So what? I don't know if they played instruments before they put out a record. I thought in the early 1980's they were interesting for reasons kind of outside musicianship. I don't make time for it today, that's for sure. Why do I need that to explore beyond the boundaries of an instrument myself? My experience pre-exists theirs.

Furthermore, I would absolutely say that a turntablist can be a musician or that a turntable can be an instrument. So if you would like to define 'instrument' for this argument feel free to do that with your words.

[trimph1]

Christian Marclay being one such....

[Hink]

people get too caught up in labels, words do not define who people are.

[debra1rlo]

what was the question?

why was the question?