What would make you switch to Linux?

[danboid]

It would be nice if qjackctl were extended to display multiple
alsa_in alsa_out options, so that selecting them would launch
pre-configured command lines, and that multiple jackd
command lines, could be listed in a drop-down selector.

Have you suggested this to RNCBC? If he agrees its a good idea, I'm sure he'll add it in.

[briandc]

GhettoSynth wrote: "JanCivil told you point blank that Cubase is a deal breaker. I've told you that MOTU is a deal breaker. Neither one of us is particularly afraid of technology. I'm sure that the vast majority of users on this site have some deal breaker that they depend on. Most musicians, however, ARE afraid of technology and are simply not interested in mucking about with Linux. In my opinion, there is at least another ten year cycle before you will see this change dramatically. It will take a lot of time before people tire of their existing interfaces that are not class compliant and have no choice to move to something that is. Linux will have to make more inroads onto the desktop in other markets first. The effort a few years ago to save some cost by selling cheap machines with linux as web machines failed miserably. Both Microsoft and Apple rose to the challenge and I doubt that we'll see much difference now. "

I think there's an important truth here. Technology as we know it today has only been around a couple of decades. Microsoft and Apple helped the world to get familiar with computers as home devices for personal everyday use. For the older generations (50 years on up?), there just isn't the mental flexability and drive to learn how to use the command line, or how to make an app.

But the younger generations (teens and younger) are just getting started, and linux provides them with all the tools they need to use their computers to reach the stars. One of my laptops was recently running a version of linux called Asturix. Made by a kid, about 16 years old. Worked marvellously, very elegant design.

There is, of course, the capitalist element that keeps companies in bed with Microsoft and Apple, but that will eventually die out. There's more freedom to be had in open source and copyleft than closed source and copyright. The world and its software are too big and varied for private corporations to run the show.

On the end-user side of things though, the older generations will not be able to learn the extra lesson or two in order to get free of their preferred corporation. The younger generation has a lot of potential though, and as gnu/linux becomes more widespread, these young people will be the ones to use their talent and make new and wonderful things with computers, for the rest of the world to be able to use and enjoy.


brian

[danboid]

+1 Mr dc

Most of the Linux audio guys on here will be well aware of falkTX, who is an excellent example of what Brian said and the power of FLOSS in general. falkTX isn't even 25 yet - he used Linux for the first time only a few years ago and now he's a coding ninja who has single-handedly tweaked and packaged pretty much every Linux audio app there is as well as authoring a number of his own from scratch.

Mr TX is a pretty unique individual but he shows what is possible if you're determined. If we are lucky enough to get a couple more kids with half his enthusiasm, who knows what could happen!

[ghettosynth]

For the older generations (50 years on up?), there just isn't the mental flexability and drive to learn how to use the command line, or how to make an app.

Please stop propagating this myth.

http://coding-and-more.blogspot.com/201 ... -with.html

There are also several research papers which support this observation.

But the younger generations (teens and younger) are just getting started, and linux provides them with all the tools they need to use their computers to reach the stars. One of my laptops was recently running a version of linux called Asturix. Made by a kid, about 16 years old. Worked marvellously, very elegant design.

No doubt that the young teen involved is bright, but it's a distribution; to imply that the young man did much more than repackage tools created by other, largely older, developers is misleading. Many people create distributions for various reasons, I've created one, you've never heard of it because it wasn't released to the public but used for embedded systems within the company that I worked for at the time.

What I was getting at has nothing to do with the repackaging of other people's work. I'm talking about the raw work necessary to bring Linux in line with other operating systems in terms of audio. This isn't easy work that's going to be solved by some bored teen with too much time on his hands. The transition to class compliant devices is the concerted effort of "capitalist" corporations developing standards that facilitate their own end goals. The issues that I was referring to aren't even programming issues at all, they are business issues that relate to image, perception, and the ability of the "capitalists" to rise to the challenge of competing with a "free as in beer" operating system. They succeeded marvelously. They did not need to reduce their price to zero to compete with "free as in beer" when "free as in beer" does not have zero support or customer acceptance costs.

[danboid]

What I was getting at has nothing to do with the repackaging of other people's work. I'm talking about the raw work necessary to bring Linux in line with other operating systems in terms of audio. This isn't easy work that's going to be solved by some bored teen with too much time on his hands.

falkTX wasn't quite a teen when he wrote Cadence (he was in his early 20's) but yes, one young man did manage to single-handedly fix one of the biggest flaws with Linux audio - that of having to juggle the ALSA, JACK (and maybe Pulseaudio, if you're bothered) sound systems. Cadence uses bridges to tie them all together so that they operate harmoniously.

Of course, he's not managed to write drivers for every bit of unsupported audio hardware. This is down to the manufacturers to comply with standards, write Linux drivers or release specs so that others can write drivers. Why they haven't done so all along beats me!

[whyterabbyt]

I love the assertion that the generation that grew up with only the command-line available will have issues learning to use the command-line.
And that a generation who cant do complex multiplication without an iPhone handy are going to save us from teh capitalism.

[ghettosynth]

What I was getting at has nothing to do with the repackaging of other people's work. I'm talking about the raw work necessary to bring Linux in line with other operating systems in terms of audio. This isn't easy work that's going to be solved by some bored teen with too much time on his hands.

falkTX wasn't quite a teen when he wrote Cadence (he was in his early 20's) but yes, one young man did manage to single-handedly fix one of the biggest flaws with Linux audio - that of having to juggle the ALSA, JACK (and maybe Pulseaudio, if you're bothered) sound systems. Cadence uses bridges to tie them all together so that they're transparent to the user.

So what? The implication that youth is a necessary factor, or that the problems in question are really programming related, is what I'm challenging here. I don't doubt that people, of all ages, with time to burn and an itch to scratch can solve problems.

Of course, he's not managed to write drivers for every bit of unsupported audio hardware. This is down to the manufacturers to comply with standards or release specs so that others can write drivers. Why they haven't done so all along beats me!

When you understand why they haven't, then you might be ready to grok what I'm talking about. If you don't understand why manufacturers don't release specs then you haven't been following this game for very long.

[danboid]

OK, maybe I should've said I don't understand why audio hardware vendors who aren't also trying to lock you into their software (*cough* Avid *cough*) haven't been more open with their specs.

[whyterabbyt]

OK, maybe I should've said I don't understand why audio hardware vendors who aren't also trying to lock you into their software (*cough* Avid *cough*) haven't been more open with their specs.

Do you mean the *cough* Avid *cough* who shifted to *cough* industry-standard *cough* CoreAudio and *cough* ASIO *cough* drivers over 3 years ago?

[danboid]

*cough* OK *cough* I admit *cough* I missed *hack* that one! *heeurrgh* <runs to toilet>

[xamido]

Cause linux is a stinking pile of poo for people who's not serious about music but wanna be known as audio hipster.

Name me one mainstream artist that does everything in linux? Recording, arranging, mixing, and mastering.

It's not a serious OS for audio, it's a toy for hipster.

Typical elitist definition of serious. If music isn't released with videos
of twerkchics, gangstas, or thrashing drug addled maniacs,
it's irrelevant.

Mainstream does not mean that stereotype of yours, you're shallow. Mainstream are people who actually make music and is listened by a lot of people in the world.

Audio hipster are people who thought their music is cool and is only listened by a bunch of people in his small community.

Do you think if george martin have to do stuff ITB and is given a choice to do his stuff on linux, windows or macOs he will choose linux? Audio and music professional does not use linux.

[briandc]

For the older generations (50 years on up?), there just isn't the mental flexability and drive to learn how to use the command line, or how to make an app.

Please stop propagating this myth.

http://coding-and-more.blogspot.com/201 ... -with.html

There are also several research papers which support this observation.

But the younger generations (teens and younger) are just getting started, and linux provides them with all the tools they need to use their computers to reach the stars. One of my laptops was recently running a version of linux called Asturix. Made by a kid, about 16 years old. Worked marvellously, very elegant design.

No doubt that the young teen involved is bright, but it's a distribution; to imply that the young man did much more than repackage tools created by other, largely older, developers is misleading. Many people create distributions for various reasons, I've created one, you've never heard of it because it wasn't released to the public but used for embedded systems within the company that I worked for at the time.

What I was getting at has nothing to do with the repackaging of other people's work. I'm talking about the raw work necessary to bring Linux in line with other operating systems in terms of audio. This isn't easy work that's going to be solved by some bored teen with too much time on his hands. The transition to class compliant devices is the concerted effort of "capitalist" corporations developing standards that facilitate their own end goals. The issues that I was referring to aren't even programming issues at all, they are business issues that relate to image, perception, and the ability of the "capitalists" to rise to the challenge of competing with a "free as in beer" operating system. They succeeded marvelously. They did not need to reduce their price to zero to compete with "free as in beer" when "free as in beer" does not have zero support or customer acceptance costs.

You've missed my points. Of course programmers get better with experience. But they also get older. New techologies are coming out faster than humans can adapt to in time.
What's more, I'm also not referring to teens who have "too much time on their hands" as you put it, as if what they "really" should be doing with their time is slaving away under corporate rule!
Teens (and non-teens) actually do things in their free time that is important to them. For some people, hacking is a hobby. For others, it's a passion.

It's this second group that is making linux/gnu grow stronger and better. For all of us, not just for a few who purchase a license.


brian

[ghettosynth]

For the older generations (50 years on up?), there just isn't the mental flexability and drive to learn how to use the command line, or how to make an app.

Please stop propagating this myth.

http://coding-and-more.blogspot.com/201 ... -with.html

There are also several research papers which support this observation.

You've missed my points.

Your point was clear, and you're wrong. This is a myth, stop propagating it.

For others, it's a passion.
...
It's this ... group that is making linux/gnu grow stronger and better. For all of us, not just for a few who purchase a license.

No, again, you are out of touch. The vast majority of serious open source work today is supported by corporations. Your ideas are outdated.

[briandc]

Point 1:

Your link supports your "myth." The older people ask less questions. Asking questions is central to innovation and creativity. The blue-red graph also indicates that most developers are in their 20's, not 40's. To quote: "Number of coders drops significantly with age. Top developer numbers, at age 27, drop by half every 6-7 years."

Point 2:
I'm not talking about today. I'm talking about tomorrow. I'm looking at what's ahead, not what we have at this moment.


brian

[ghettosynth]

Point 1:

Your link supports your "myth." The older people ask less questions. Asking questions is central to innovation and creativity.

You're pulling shit out of your ass to defend your prejudice. Do some research on the subject.

You said:

For the older generations (50 years on up?), there just isn't the mental flexability and drive to learn how to use the command line, or how to make an app.

This is a myth, not asking questions is not an indicator of a "lack of mental flexability(sic)."