What would make you switch to Linux?

Anything about MUSIC but doesn't fit into the forums above.
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ras.s wrote:I kind of like this recent quote from Richard Stallman: "I can tell you something about free software 5 years from now: most of it will be the same as today. Free software does not change rapidly. (I think that is a feature; our society teaches people to overvalue innovation so as to distract them from more important things such as freedom, democracy, and giving everyone a comfortable life)."

That man is a programmer who deserves the Nobel peace prize.
OT, but I once asked Stallman if he would ever consider whether it would be allowable for people to add an ethics clause to their GPL'd code. I was very disappointed he ostensibly ducked the question(*) , but made it clear that as far as he was concerned, it was more important that the software be free than people be prevented from using that software for uses which might impact on 'freedom, democracy, and giving everyone a comfortable life'.

(* to be specific, he asked for an example of what I meant, and I gave one of someone who didnt want their software usable for the military. His response foccussed on the fact that he had no issues with the military (in fact he said he supported it, so not really my own peace prize candidate there), which absolutely missed the point. I tried to supply a different example but he then followed up by basically saying that even if people who I absolutely didn't want to use my software used my GPL'd software, they'd have to supply their source code changes, so that was all ok. The license was important, the ultimate application of the software was not)
my other modular synth is a bugbrand

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briandc wrote:
spaceman wrote:
briandc wrote:
spaceman wrote:
briandc wrote: I started using amSynth, a "simple" 2-oscillator synth available gratis in most linux repositories to install.
After a while, I thought, "gee, if this synth only had x, y and z added to it, it'd be able to do lots more." So I wrote a feature request to the creator/developer. (If I were a programmer I would have just made a fork to my own liking, of course.)
The developer responded with interest, and he added the features. I made some patch banks, and he added them to the final updated release.
And how is that Linux-specific?
It's not linux-specific, but it's end-user-participation specific. Or "community"-specific.
We constantly talk to developers here at Kvr and they generally seem to listen when a good idea is presented.
Good. And if they are willing to share the source code so that other programmers can add more, even better. ;)
brian
Yes, some do. Example: OB-XD, which was finished recently. The author made the code open-source, and some other guy already ported it to Macintosh. See. It DOESN't have to be Linux. And everything works like a charm right out of the box - no need for Wine, bopttles glasses or other recipients.
Fernando (FMR)

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Him ducking the question and ranting on about what he thinks is important is probably just him being true to himself. ;)

But I'd tend to agree with him, though. Adding an ethics clause would just further fragment the open source community (developers, mainly) and it would be practically impossible to actually look out if someone is breaking the license (it's already near impossible). In case of a military using code that they aren't allowed to use per the license agreement, it's impossible. But say, a developer denying religious people to use a useful library because he thinks all religious people are unethical, would just divide people -- it would lead to religious people denying the same right from atheists. It's more important that modifications are shared than denying some people from using it altogether.

Nothing obviously stops a developer coming up with a license that would be nearly 1:1 with FSF's idea of free software, but with the exception of a ethic clause. Wasn't there a synthesizer that wasn't allowed to be used for satan worship?

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There's plenty of open source on all platforms.
My other host is Bruce Forsyth

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lutykos wrote:
fmr wrote: As if it wasn't enough trouble already having to create music, produce it, and have to deal with the idiosincrasies of the DAWs and plug-ins. No... since we have plenty of free time, why not "reinventing the wheel" and start creating all by ourselves, the perfect OS and/or for the perfect DAW that we will create ourselves (because all the guys involving in doing it professionally are a bunch of ignorants that don't know what they are doing).

And all of a sudden, we stop being musicians with technical skils to become mediocre programmers using mediocre apps and neglecting our musical skills.

Is it just me who sees the rediculousness in this thought path?

What kept me away from Linux, after trying it like around ten years ago, was the feeling that everything there was like half done, and left to the end user to finish the job. There were no installers, apps are, most of the time, available as source code for the user to compile, we have to go hunting for the needed libraries, because the licenses didn't allow people to include them packaged with the apps... in a word: a total mess
It was 10 years ago, but ten years ago android didn't exist and now?(it is just an example). Nowadays it is much easier to install a program. ubuntu software center is like the google play store, so you don't have to search on the web to find the installer...
So, if a specific application needs a library, does that library comes together, or am I supposed to go hunt it? And the desktops? If KDE updates their desktop, do I have an installer now to update what I have installed, or do I have to wait for the guys who created my distribution to decide when they want to include that update? And do those distors create updates for already installed OS, that preserve what's already there, or do we need to start over every time?

Anyway, since I am an enthusiast of this stuff, I may give a try to your suggestion, when I have a spare machine
Last edited by fmr on Fri Jun 13, 2014 10:53 am, edited 2 times in total.
Fernando (FMR)

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ras.s wrote:Him ducking the question and ranting on about what he thinks is important is probably just him being true to himself. ;)
Oh, you're probably right. It was just... disappointing.
But I'd tend to agree with him, though. Adding an ethics clause would just further fragment the open source community (developers, mainly) and it would be practically impossible to actually look out if someone is breaking the license (it's already near impossible). In case of a military using code that they aren't allowed to use per the license agreement, it's impossible. But say, a developer denying religious people to use a useful library because he thinks all religious people are unethical, would just divide people -- it would lead to religious people denying the same right from atheists. It's more important that modifications are shared than denying some people from using it altogether.
See, I wouldnt have been disappointed with an answer like that. :shrug:
my other modular synth is a bugbrand

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fmr wrote:
lutykos wrote:
fmr wrote: As if it wasn't enough trouble already having to create music, produce it, and have to deal with the idiosincrasies of the DAWs and plug-ins. No... since we have plenty of free time, why not "reinventing the wheel" and start creating all by ourselves, the perfect OS and/or for the perfect DAW that we will create ourselves (because all the guys involving in doing it professionally are a bunch of ignorants that don't know what they are doing).

And all of a sudden, we stop being musicians with technical skils to become mediocre programmers using mediocre apps and neglecting our musical skills.

Is it just me who sees the rediculousness in this thought path?

What kept me away from Linux, after trying it like around ten years ago, was the feeling that everything there was like half done, and left to the end user to finish the job. There were no installers, apps are, most of the time, available as source code for the user to compile, we have to go hunting for the needed libraries, because the licenses didn't allow people to include them packaged with the apps... in a word: a total mess
It was 10 years ago, but ten years ago android didn't exist and now?(it is just an example). Nowadays it is much easier to install a program. ubuntu software center is like the google play store, so you don't have to search on the web to find the installer...
So, if a specific application needs a library, does that library comes together, or am I supposed to go hunt it? And the desktops? If KDE updates their desktop, do I have an installer now to update what I have installed, or do I have to wait for the guys who created my distribution to decide when they want to include that update? And do those distors create updates for already installed OS, that preserve what's already there, or do we need to start over every time?

Anyway, since I am an enthusiast of this stuff, I may give a try to your suggestion, when I have a spare machine
Yes if you install it with the package manager. You don't have an installer, but in ubuntu you can add ppa and you will can install the latest one. But if you want the latest programs desktops, you should try Arch Linux. First it could be a difficult to install, but it isn't impossible, and it is the most flexible and up-to-date distro.

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lutykos wrote: Yes if you install it with the package manager. You don't have an installer, but in ubuntu you can add ppa and you will can install the latest one. But if you want the latest programs desktops, you should try Arch Linux. First it could be a difficult to install, but it isn't impossible, and it is the most flexible and up-to-date distro.
And here we go again:
1. What is PPA?
2. Now it's not Ubuntu anymore, but Arch Linux, which could be difficult to install?

Come on... It is problematic already when I have to make applications work with each other, and deal with the drivers, let alone having headaches trying to install the OS. And if I choose the best distro, it is not the most flexible and up to date, and If I want the most up to date, it's not the best distro and the most flexible?

Seems like things didn't change that much over the last ten years, after all :hihi:

BTW: Did I say that I think all "app stores" like iTunes, Google, whatever, suck? I never manage to know what I should get from there, and always feel helplessly lost. Last time I tried to install Winamp in my Android ophone, I had to go through their own website, because I was unable to find it in the Google store.
Last edited by fmr on Fri Jun 13, 2014 11:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
Fernando (FMR)

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I'm technically savvy: can install and administer Linux systems, MySQL, develop software in C/C++, Python etc. etc.

However, as a musician, who wants to write music and run plugins with a minimum of fuss ...
Yes if you install it with the package manager.
You lost me as "package whatsamajiggy". The rest of that paragraph? Jus forget it :)

Linux is not there yet, it may never be there - at least not for another 5 - 10 years.. This is not actually a problem, since Linux is great for other stuff.

Peace,
Andy.
... space is the place ...

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fmr wrote:
lutykos wrote: Yes if you install it with the package manager. You don't have an installer, but in ubuntu you can add ppa and you will can install the latest one. But if you want the latest programs desktops, you should try Arch Linux. First it could be a difficult to install, but it isn't impossible, and it is the most flexible and up-to-date distro.
And here we go again:
1. What is PPA?
2. Now it's not Ubuntu anymore, but Arch Linux, which could be difficult to install?

Come on... It is problematic already when I have to make applications work with each other, and deal with the drivers, let alone having headaches trying to install the OS. And if I choose the best distro, it is not the most flexible and up to date, and If I want the most up to date, it's not the best distro and the most flexible?

Seems like things didn't change that much over the last ten years, after all :hihi:
1. It is an additional repository.
2. The system. Later it becomes much easier.

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You guys do understand that it's just terminology one has to learn when they use Linux?

There are similar concepts with other operating systems just the same, concepts which are unique to that environment. Saying the concepts are too hard to grasp -- how the heck did you learn to use the systems you use now? It's a moot argument.

For the heck of it, every time I encounter OSX, I'm baffled with what I have to interface it with -- the effing mouse has only one button!

Regarding PPA and package manager; a PPA is a pool of packages, which you look into with your package manager, practically a dedicated web server. The manager handles downloading, installing, updating and removing software.

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fmr wrote:
briandc wrote:
spaceman wrote:
briandc wrote:
spaceman wrote:
briandc wrote: I started using amSynth, a "simple" 2-oscillator synth available gratis in most linux repositories to install.
After a while, I thought, "gee, if this synth only had x, y and z added to it, it'd be able to do lots more." So I wrote a feature request to the creator/developer. (If I were a programmer I would have just made a fork to my own liking, of course.)
The developer responded with interest, and he added the features. I made some patch banks, and he added them to the final updated release.
And how is that Linux-specific?
It's not linux-specific, but it's end-user-participation specific. Or "community"-specific.
We constantly talk to developers here at Kvr and they generally seem to listen when a good idea is presented.
Good. And if they are willing to share the source code so that other programmers can add more, even better. ;)
brian
Yes, some do. Example: OB-XD, which was finished recently. The author made the code open-source, and some other guy already ported it to Macintosh. See. It DOESN't have to be Linux. And everything works like a charm right out of the box - no need for Wine, bopttles glasses or other recipients.
It wouldn't have to be linux; but I don't think Apple will port their apps to linux, either. But that's my whole point. Corporations aren't interested in the common good; only their earnings. If adding new functionalities will improve their earnings, great. If not, forget about it.
Whereas the open-source community of users includes a lot of talented people who will make improvements just for the enjoyment of making a good app. And the world is a better place for it.


brian
Tired of Windows? Linux offers hundreds of good distros. For more info:
DistroWatch
Some good synths for linux: www.linuxsynths.com

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ras.s wrote:You guys do understand that it's just terminology one has to learn when they use Linux?
It's not learning new terminology, it's the massive hassle of getting a system working.

Quite a lot of musicians (not KVR users ...) find plugging in a keyboard and making sure the MIDI port is active in a host "difficult". Think about that for a minute!

Peace,
Andy.
... space is the place ...

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ZenPunkHippy wrote:I'm technically savvy: can install and administer Linux systems, MySQL, develop software in C/C++, Python etc. etc.

However, as a musician, who wants to write music and run plugins with a minimum of fuss ...
Yes if you install it with the package manager.
You lost me as "package whatsamajiggy". The rest of that paragraph? Jus forget it :)

Linux is not there yet, it may never be there - at least not for another 5 - 10 years.. This is not actually a problem, since Linux is great for other stuff.

Peace,
Andy.
Which is easier: to search on the web for the installer, then double click next,next....or to run the sofware center(in ubuntu) search the program and click instal (or just type in the terminal "sudo apt-get install program" /in Ubuntu/ or "sudo pacmans -S program" /in Arch Linux/ )

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lutykos wrote:Which is easier: to search on the web for the installer, then double click next,next....or to run the sofware center(in ubuntu) search the program and click instal (or just type in the terminal "sudo apt-get install program" /in Ubuntu/ or "sudo pacmans -S program" /in Arch Linux/ )
You're not getting it ... you're looking at it from the point of view of an experienced user.

Most musicians are not (and are not interested in being) experienced computer users.
... space is the place ...

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