What would make you switch to Linux?

[el-bo (formerly ebow)]

So we can run Bitwig, Reaper, and Tracktion in Linux, or we can just run them easier and more successfully in Windows or OSX. What a difficult decision.

Yeah, but you're forgetting about the poor third-world folk. How else will they run all that good free software, like bitwig, reap.........oh, wait a minute

[el-bo (formerly ebow)]

That the list is endless, is meaningless, because nobody has the time,
need, or desire, for it all. How many own three big-name softsynths, and have time or skill to maximize even just them?

Well you seem to have no issues running two large, non-free daw's, so why don't you tell us

I dunno...kids these days don't even know they're born

[Arglebargle]

So we can run Bitwig, Reaper, and Tracktion in Linux, or we can just run them easier and more successfully in Windows or OSX. What a difficult decision.

Yeah, but you're forgetting about the poor third-world folk. How else will they run all that good free software, like bitwig, reap.........oh, wait a minute

I would think on Maslow's hierarchy of needs having a DAW would be pretty low anyway. who are these third world inhabitants that are clamoring for a bit of dat Linux magic?

[highkoo]

I guess some weird software-Nazi type of person would "make" me switch, but its a weird question.

"Why should I be made to switch to Linux?"

"Why should I switch to Linux?"

Oh wait, am I late to this party?

[ras.s]

The only reason I'm not switching to Linux is because the audio plugins aren't really good. They are not bad, but their quality is far behind what is available on Windows. The costly workaround would be to use hardware effects, which is not a bad idea (you can still resell them, it gives you a more "unique" sound). But with this solution you miss the more complex effects you can only have as plugins (Reaktor stuff, Glitch, tempo based effects).

If Glitch is important for your sound, the second generation of it is available for Linux as well: http://illformed.com/ (~50€+VAT)

Inear Display also has made their effect collection available on Linux (for no cost), perhaps check them out for more glitchiness, modulations and tempo based stuff? http://www.ineardisplay.com/



Now it's not obviously 1:1 with Reaktor (which two programs ever are?), but Ingen has some serious depth to it. It loads plugins (LV2 and LADSPA - there are individual oscillators, filters, MIDI, effects, etc available) as modules that can be chained together to make an instrument/effect. No interface making or stuff like that though, just wiring. (Never had a proper look at Reaktor though, NI stuff is quite pricey when bought separately and I haven't scraped up the cash for the complete bundle.) http://drobilla.net/software/ingen/ Check out drobilla's other stuff while you're there.

Another modular synth with a similar approach is ams. Their website is here and the latest binaries from few months back are here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IuQZajaSw6M

That guy has a few other synth videos as well. Here's him effecting a drumbeat with an effect that is loaded in Ingen and controlled with the seq24 sequencer:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RtZkKfTJEK8



For a bit of a different angle, could we have some developers/companies chiming in here as well instead of us same folks yapping on about this? What would make a developer start supporting Linux?

Quick look around lists these problems, at least: looks like there are no Linux users and/or that there's some heavy code lifting included, which costs resources and doesn't look attractive at the moment. Anything else? (Thoughts about Linux from CWITEC, Mutools, Signaldust and U-he).

Why doesn't Camel Audio support Linux, ZenPunk?

[trimph1]

So we can run Bitwig, Reaper, and Tracktion in Linux, or we can just run them easier and more successfully in Windows or OSX. What a difficult decision.

I can run those on 8 without jack...still why would I switch?

[ZenPunkHippy]

What would make a developer start supporting Linux?

Numbers a.k.a. sales. We receive perhaps 1 email a year (and even that is being generous) requesting Linux support. Of course you could rally 1000 Linux users to email their favourite devs asking for support, but how many of those people would actually pay $100, $200, $500 for a plugin?

In terms of sales, it's difficult to give a precise number of licenses we would need to sell in order to justify it but I reckon it would number in the hundreds: the significant costs being additional development time and testing.

Peace,
Andy.

[ZenPunkHippy]

Some Open Source Software can survive using the "user pays" support model (Redhat ...), but this only works if the number of users requiring paid support is high enough to provide a sustainable income.

Musicians are not known to be flush with cash, so that's the first problem, but also the number of possible problems that would require paid support is relatively low compared to a complex product such as Linux.

Peace,
Andy.

[ras.s]

In what kind of timeframe would you expect those sales to come in to make it financially attractive? It wouldn't happen over night, obviously, but ..

And Ardour got that pay-what-you-want/subscription model working for the main developer. Not everyone's possibility, of course.




And as a sidenote, it only now occured to me that isn't/wasn't this website partially financed by a company that makes specialised Linux audio computers for touring musicians?

[ZenPunkHippy]

In what kind of timeframe would you expect those sales to come in to make it financially attractive?

Difficult to say, but I reckon within 1 or 2 years would be reasonable.

And Ardour got that pay-what-you-want/subscription model working for the main developer. Not everyone's possibility, of course.

It's just not sustainable for most established audio companies because the cost of running a business is already significant and paying users would be mighty pissed off if they learned that the thing they paid $500 for can now be had for $10.

It might work well for a start up i.e. someone that doesn't have an established product and user base, but over the long term the returns would need to be significant to make it worth while.

Peace,
Andy.

[chk071]

If software developers really pick up Linux as a platform to develop their software for, Linux will have to live with a holy lot of proprietary software, not only the audio apps itself, but especially copy protections. Frankly, it's not really a matter of whether the market is ready for Linux, the question is rather whether Linux is ready for the market. And i don't see that right now. The often mentioned advantages of Linux and open source is also its weak point. Patents and closed source is very common stuff (not only) for audio software.

Answering directly on the question "What would make you switch to Linux?" i can only say, why ask this question? To me that's like jehova's witnesses knocking on my door asking me why i don't believe in the holy christ, sorry. I don't need to be evangelized. For me it's rather a question of what gives me the best options for what i want to do. There is no political or ideologic considerations to be done for me. It is a tool for me, nothing else.

[glokraw]

So we can run Bitwig, Reaper, and Tracktion in Linux, or we can just run them easier and more successfully in Windows or OSX. What a difficult decision.

Yeah, but you're forgetting about the poor third-world folk. How else will they run all that good free software, like bitwig, reap.........oh, wait a minute

I would think on Maslow's hierarchy of needs having a DAW would be pretty low anyway. who are these third world inhabitants that are clamoring for a bit of dat Linux magic?

Some of them save up for long periods of time, hoping to buy a recycled computer.
It appears the elitists mock and scorn both recycling, and a poor artists
aspirations. Guitar Centers being thin on the ground, in such locations,
Linux can fill the need for modern software.

I have found running a daw to be easier, more enjoyable, and more flexible
for connecting things, than using windows. I can record from a usb interface,
and a pci interface, at the same time, and don't need a mixer,
not quite the stone-age. My vst collection resides in a folder. When
I install a new linux, I just drop the folder in, and they are ready to go,
not a single reinstall/re-authorization needed.

[ras.s]

Two years to get a hundred new customers doesn't sound entirely impossible to me, if the product is attractive to customerbase - what do I know, though.

It would be well wise from new companies & developers to make their products run on Linux from the get-go, so that when they have a large portfolio (or even a single large product) to offer, they don't have to "go back" to make it work on Linux as well (either getting rid of platform dependencies or coming up with alternatives), .. Seems like it can be a really time-consuming effort - weren't both FL Studio and Reaper first for Windows only? It took both companies making those software years to get them on OSX. (I don't have neither, but I've understood it to be like this reading KVR.)

[ZenPunkHippy]

Some of them save up for long periods of time, hoping to buy a recycled computer.
It appears the elitists mock and scorn both recycling, and a poor artists
aspirations.

No one here AFAICT is mocking the above use case - people who have no alternative but to run a recycled computer + free software. That is a perfectly good reason to run Linux for audio, and it's amazing that it's even possible. The efforts of the developers should be applauded!

Linux can fill the need for modern software.

You've already shot this argument to pieces by suggesting the use paid software to make up for the things free software can't do in an earlier post.

Peace,
Andy.

[glokraw]

Musicians are not known to be flush with cash,
Peace,
Andy.

Just a while back, you were going on and on about the endless list,
and citing the wondrous $megaDaw$...but now,
"musicians are not known to be flush with cash".
Seems a bit incongruent?

As for an existing mainstream company supporting linux,
I think there would have to be an attractive cross-compiler
available, to do much of the work, that would fit in their existing
business plan, like a windows app dev adding a new Mac version.
This might be the way bitwig has chosen, with java compilers
working across platforms? Linux users have made important discoveries
about bitwig, that greatly enhanced using the linux version.
Discovery Pro now has a native linux version, if you're friends
with George, you could ask how that is working out. I'll be getting it
later this summer.