How do i become a real musician?

[enroe]

I think you will find that the people on the street (or John Q Public as I like to call them) vary too much to cast a net over all of them in such a way. Truth be told I do not spend time irl with many musicians at all, so I do get the perspective of those people often. I cant say you're wrong at all, but I cant say you're right either. I hear both sides, I hear people who see a computer being used for making music as just pushing buttons to make music. I call these people ignorant, which is not meant in demeaning manner as I am ignorant when it comes to things that are not of interest or in my skill sets. People walk in my house and see guitars everywhere and ask "do you play guitar?" Usually I just answer with "naw, I just cant afford guitar hero" (another thing I see is more people thinking because they can play guitar hero they play guitar)

However more important is what difference does it make what they think? Either they like your music or they dont, totally ignorant to how you made it unless you inform them. It comes down to the artist themselves as to what matters, for instance let's take the person who just pastes loops (that he/she did not make) together first, are they musicians? I wont answer because I have no desire to get caught up in the labels, it doesn't matter.

Then take the guy playing lead cello in say the BSO who has studied music his whole life, I think most would agree that he was a real musician. Do you think it matters at all to him if the guy pasting loops calls himself a musician or not? Both know the truth about who they are, what they can and cannot do. Beyond that it shouldn't matter should it? I guess if you're really competitive it might offend you if someone likes their music over the music of the real musician and that person might feel under appreciated. But it's like genres, some I like and some I dont...most often because it doesn't have elements in it that I can relate to (FWIW over the course of my life that changes, and that's great). I got no dog in that fight (not that I am in any fight at all), so why would I presume to be able to judge it. All that matters to me is if, I like it or not and I am free to decide either

A while back ago we were discussing covers, good covers, bad covers...it's the same thought I had then. I believe it was a friday night, I live 30 miles outside of Boston and I thought "hmmm, hundreds of bands right now are playing covers somewhere, some good, some bad...none of which I am hearing so in fact they dont exist to me". Why do I care if they do a good cover or not, I'm not there.

I take this attitude with other artists, call yourself what you like, tell me you're better than everyone else, tell me I suck, tell me I'm great, tell you dont a damn about my music, or whatever (good or bad)...it's all good. It doesn't change a thing, my passion has brought me a lot of peace and harmony in my life and it's a very large part of who I have become...we cant change the past so what difference does it make? (I know I sound like Hillary ) That bell has been rung, and it's been great for me. That's why I dont get the judging thing, I dont see the whole picture to relate to so either I like it or not. What I dont need to do is shout what I dont like from every rooftop, if I dont like it why waste my time with it? ...

Hey Hink, great post!

You describe somebody (yourself) who is resting in himself and who exudes a
healthy self-confidence, so that the appreciation of other people about a him
being a "real musician" or not doesn't matter. This person just does his music
primarily for his own delight and because of his passion. He is happy with what
he does - and outer appraisals and ratings are not important to him.

And yes, this is of course the attitude of every serious artist or serious musician.
If someones' creations don't arise from an intrinsic feeling or from inner passion,
I wouldn't call such a person "real musician" or "real artist".

But I think the thread opener wants to pick out something else: Not everybody
is so healthy self-confident as he should be - at least not all the time. And it
may happen that close relevant friends drop very offending sentences like:
"If you were a real musician ... " or "A real musician would do it another way
..." or "perhaps this should be done by a real musician". They are not aware
that they violate him, because their utterances are spontaneous - and they only
pick up the "general view on musicians in society".

A very self-confident musician like you may be above that, but many would feel
very denigrated and offended. And for these "many" the "general view on
musicians in society" becomes important because family and close friends carry
this view. These unsettled musicians ponder uneasily about what a "real
musician" should be.

[jancivil]

take the guy playing lead cello in say the BSO who has studied music his whole life, I think most would agree that he was a real musician. Do you think it matters at all to him if the guy pasting loops calls himself a musician or not? Both know the truth about who they are, what they can and cannot do.

So you know that guy? I don't. Maybe he doesn't know about that at all. Maybe he's a curmudgeon that has an attitude that would travel to disgust with that, too.
I didn't know until I had been at KVR for a bit. It doesn't matter to me very much when someone kids themselves, but it has a place in discourse.

I have seen at least one person here that is evidently restricted to moving loops around that insists 'I've been a musician for 30 years'. And this sort of person is going to have the most objection at the music theory board to a post 'Better if you play music on an instrument a while and the theory things you read will click, rather than rely on books...', which is where this 'real musician' trope gains traction. He's going to want to talk about some books every time.
SO. 'Both know the truth' rings false to me.

As to the OP being not supremely confident, most people shouldn't be! He has an idea of his own development 'I need to improve' which is healthy.

[jancivil]

the "general view on musicians in society" becomes important because family and close friends carry this view. These unsettled musicians ponder uneasily about what a "real
musician" should be.

Or maybe the person is around better musicians all the time and has a healthy self-critique apparatus and 'real musician' is a KVR trope that served as a way to frame a question, uneasily.

You keep bringing in what 'Joe Q Public' thinks, which seems auto-biographical more than anything else. My father believed I was a musician early in my life, for instance. Once upon a time you couldn't Trick somebody about it.

[trimph1]

I don't understand the issue of wanting to improve oneself.

I have been spending time with my guitar teacher going over scales that I had completely forgot about plus some other things things that need work.

I like where I am but there needs improvement.

Edit...dang autocorrect!!

[Hink]

I don't understand the issue of wanting to improve oneself.

I have been spending time with my guitar teacher going over scales that I had completely forgot about plus some other things things that need work.

I like where I am but there needs improvement.

+1...like I have said a zillion times, I haven't peaked...there's more to learn than I have days left

[Tricky-Loops]

...there's more to learn than I have days left

...another one bites the dust...

I'd need 1000 extra lives to become the real musician I want to be...

[Hink]

I think you will find that the people on the street (or John Q Public as I like to call them) vary too much to cast a net over all of them in such a way. Truth be told I do not spend time irl with many musicians at all, so I do get the perspective of those people often. I cant say you're wrong at all, but I cant say you're right either. I hear both sides, I hear people who see a computer being used for making music as just pushing buttons to make music. I call these people ignorant, which is not meant in demeaning manner as I am ignorant when it comes to things that are not of interest or in my skill sets. People walk in my house and see guitars everywhere and ask "do you play guitar?" Usually I just answer with "naw, I just cant afford guitar hero" (another thing I see is more people thinking because they can play guitar hero they play guitar)

However more important is what difference does it make what they think? Either they like your music or they dont, totally ignorant to how you made it unless you inform them. It comes down to the artist themselves as to what matters, for instance let's take the person who just pastes loops (that he/she did not make) together first, are they musicians? I wont answer because I have no desire to get caught up in the labels, it doesn't matter.

Then take the guy playing lead cello in say the BSO who has studied music his whole life, I think most would agree that he was a real musician. Do you think it matters at all to him if the guy pasting loops calls himself a musician or not? Both know the truth about who they are, what they can and cannot do. Beyond that it shouldn't matter should it? I guess if you're really competitive it might offend you if someone likes their music over the music of the real musician and that person might feel under appreciated. But it's like genres, some I like and some I dont...most often because it doesn't have elements in it that I can relate to (FWIW over the course of my life that changes, and that's great). I got no dog in that fight (not that I am in any fight at all), so why would I presume to be able to judge it. All that matters to me is if, I like it or not and I am free to decide either

A while back ago we were discussing covers, good covers, bad covers...it's the same thought I had then. I believe it was a friday night, I live 30 miles outside of Boston and I thought "hmmm, hundreds of bands right now are playing covers somewhere, some good, some bad...none of which I am hearing so in fact they dont exist to me". Why do I care if they do a good cover or not, I'm not there.

I take this attitude with other artists, call yourself what you like, tell me you're better than everyone else, tell me I suck, tell me I'm great, tell you dont a damn about my music, or whatever (good or bad)...it's all good. It doesn't change a thing, my passion has brought me a lot of peace and harmony in my life and it's a very large part of who I have become...we cant change the past so what difference does it make? (I know I sound like Hillary ) That bell has been rung, and it's been great for me. That's why I dont get the judging thing, I dont see the whole picture to relate to so either I like it or not. What I dont need to do is shout what I dont like from every rooftop, if I dont like it why waste my time with it? ...

Hey Hink, great post!

You describe somebody (yourself) who is resting in himself and who exudes a
healthy self-confidence, so that the appreciation of other people about a him
being a "real musician" or not doesn't matter. This person just does his music
primarily for his own delight and because of his passion. He is happy with what
he does - and outer appraisals and ratings are not important to him.

And yes, this is of course the attitude of every serious artist or serious musician.
If someones' creations don't arise from an intrinsic feeling or from inner passion,
I wouldn't call such a person "real musician" or "real artist".

But I think the thread opener wants to pick out something else: Not everybody
is so healthy self-confident as he should be - at least not all the time. And it
may happen that close relevant friends drop very offending sentences like:
"If you were a real musician ... " or "A real musician would do it another way
..." or "perhaps this should be done by a real musician". They are not aware
that they violate him, because their utterances are spontaneous - and they only
pick up the "general view on musicians in society".

A very self-confident musician like you may be above that, but many would feel
very denigrated and offended. And for these "many" the "general view on
musicians in society" becomes important because family and close friends carry
this view. These unsettled musicians ponder uneasily about what a "real
musician" should be.

I would not exactly say that I am a confident musician, it would be more accurate to say I have confidence in music to bring me what I desire of it through my skills in music and understanding of myself. I'm not the same person I was when I was 12, I have grown and my passion has grown. I spent far too much of my life IMHO saddled to rules and things that will sound good in a Rolling Stone Interview when I was a rock star (my pipe dream*). For far too many years I was trying to push my passion when the fact is IMO the best thing for me was to follow my passion.

I think acceptance is another big factor in growth, I can look back and say "I wasn't meant to be a rock star" and the truth is I wasn't. But at the same time maybe the rock stars were not meant to be like me and I'm okay where I am at and excited about where I will be tomorrow. I will grow, those times I sit down to jam for a minute or two and 3 hours cruise by will always bring me peace, when I go for at least a generation or two I will be remembered by those who mean the most to me for my passion of guitar. Not only now do I accept this is where I am at, I embrace it and cherish it. I'm no better or no worse than the next guy as a musician, but I am pretty darn good at being me

*please note, I am not saying that dreams are bad or not to follow your dreams, what I am saying is allow your dreams to change as you grow because your dreams are growing as well

[Turello]

So simple: start\begin to listen all Mississippi Blues, drink Jack Daniels and strong beer, use filthy language, said women only with malicious sight... think this is enough... Good Luck!

PS: obviously see all Chuck Norris Films

[jancivil]

If we're going into autobiography... I was always acutely aware of my deficiencies vis a vis the better musician. I will always be. I started as a child put in with adults, which was something I was made to do, in order to give me perspective I think. So I have a POV that you have to get used to people knocking you back. There is all of this coddling going on here, I'm sorry. "it doesn't matter what anyone thinks", well at a certain point in your development - and IMO for quite some time - it has to. But we're all such artistes today!

There is a term 'woodshedding', where you don't need papa to beat your ass up in there, you do it yourself. Then some of us subject to another person that is going to finish the job. Or, you learn from the audience! I embraced having a professor that never stroked me, it was always 'the problems with that are...'. I embraced having to present to a scary jury with a giant that was never going to be particularly impressed with me.

Someone said to me a while ago they thought I was one of the best electric guitarists around because of my musicality. I can't do a lot with that, I'm always creating a workaround and playing to my strengths. I'm not any good, there is nothing to gain by a top-down assessment of yourself. I knew people that did proceed like that and missed some things, in a big way.
I know the truth about it every time.

I was ambitious but I learned to cut my losses. I learned to be the best me I can musically rather than an encyclopedist or 'do' someone else. I learned a lot by emulating but you grow up and into your own persona and part of that is knowing what you're not going to be cutting.

[ghettosynth]

If I've told you guys once, I've told you a thousand times, leave the damned serious knob alone, I had it set exactly where I wanted it.

You know that you're a real musician...

When you are pleased that the pay for the gig, when looked at hourly from the time you leave your house to when you return meets minimum wage.

There's more where that came from...

http://www.acousticbylines.com/quotes-j ... sician.htm

For a while I used a Marshall 1936 (2x12) cabinet to play live. I really liked the sound. I knew that I had become just a bit more serious when I gave it up for not meeting my one trip rule: "All of my guitar gear, guitar included, must be carried into the gig in one trip." This meant a small combo with the SM57, mini mic stand, fold up guitar stand, and both the XLR and my 1/4" cables tucked in the back, and my tube screamer and delay pedals tucked in the guitar case, guitar in one hand, amp in the other. No, I never had roadies, unless you count my DJ days where there was no shortage of little girls eager to carry records for the DJ in hopes of getting into the party for free.

It wasn't that one trip made all of the difference so much as one trip could easily become three and more complicated gear took more setup time, more teardown time, and led to more setup related mistakes on stage. I enjoyed playing more when I gave up playing with multiple guitars, the rack full of effects, guitar synth, and midi foot controller.

[debra1rlo]

Should I do 5 solos? or 6?

I'll do 6

[ghettosynth]

Should I do 5 solos? or 6?

I'll do 6

Per track or per night?

Correct number of guitar solos, per/night: Unlimited
Correct number of bass solos, per/night: One, if it's short.
Correct number of drum solos, per/ night: Cmon, really, just focus on keeping time, ok, NOBODY, other than the drummer, wants to hear a drum solo.

[debra1rlo]

Should I do 5 solos? or 6?

I'll do 6

Per track or per night?

yes

[ghettosynth]

Should I do 5 solos? or 6?

I'll do 6

Per track or per night?

yes

We opened once for a band that played these absurdly long faux-jazz hippy rock tunes that lasted for like twenty minutes each. They were all solo, all instruments, all the time, no vocals, just hippy rock. We had to wait until their set was over for some reason, I don't remember why, longest two hours ever!

[sqigls]

Heroin.
Lots and lots of heroin.

This is definitely the path of intelligence.

A million popular and rich dead musicians can't be wrong


this is cynical and silly humour ok, for the people who don't get it for some reason.
Heroin is BAD mmK!!??