Oh goody .... just what I needed to see. What if he is right?
We guitarists may have been chasing a chimera....
What do you guys think?
Are we chasing wild geese?
Tone is a LIE
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 16977 posts since 23 Jun, 2010 from north of London ON
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pOwfLWKfSuY
Oh goody .... just what I needed to see. What if he is right?
We guitarists may have been chasing a chimera....
What do you guys think?
Are we chasing wild geese?
Oh goody .... just what I needed to see. What if he is right?
We guitarists may have been chasing a chimera....
What do you guys think?
Are we chasing wild geese?
Barry
If a billion people believe a stupid thing it is still a stupid thing
If a billion people believe a stupid thing it is still a stupid thing
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- KVRAF
- 2070 posts since 5 Oct, 2005
Tone does exist, but like colour it's unstable. How a tone or colour is perceived is affected by the colours/tones (or lack of) around it and on top of that people perceive them in different ways.
In that video the Strat recorded on the laptop still sounds shitty when everything else comes in (to me anyway), even though the tone fits into the piece of music quite well.
In the example that sounds "small and strident " instead of God like and epic, it's the other musical parts giving the perception of epicness. The guitar part doesn't change ,but since that is what most peoples attention is on they think that's what the epic vibe is coming from. It's kind of like an aural illusion, where your brain detects "epicness" from the background and assigns it to the thing in the foreground your focusing on.
In that video the Strat recorded on the laptop still sounds shitty when everything else comes in (to me anyway), even though the tone fits into the piece of music quite well.
In the example that sounds "small and strident " instead of God like and epic, it's the other musical parts giving the perception of epicness. The guitar part doesn't change ,but since that is what most peoples attention is on they think that's what the epic vibe is coming from. It's kind of like an aural illusion, where your brain detects "epicness" from the background and assigns it to the thing in the foreground your focusing on.
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- KVRAF
- 1584 posts since 22 Oct, 2004 from Schmocation
This guy for some reason thinks he needs to make a statement that is radical, dramatic, absolute. His statement probably doesn't even reflect what he really thinks. I'd say it's obvious that you should try to make your guitar sound good, but adjust to muscical context and not be obsessive. But apparently that kind of statement isn't considered appropriate for youtube, where millions of wannabe oracles desperately try to get your attention.
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 16977 posts since 23 Jun, 2010 from north of London ON
Precisely.
He does have another video talking of tone as truth as well.
Setting up a "dialectic" so to speak.
He does have another video talking of tone as truth as well.
Setting up a "dialectic" so to speak.
Barry
If a billion people believe a stupid thing it is still a stupid thing
If a billion people believe a stupid thing it is still a stupid thing
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- KVRAF
- 5223 posts since 20 Jul, 2010
Tone is like God, or Infinite Knowledge. You can chase it, but never find it, just a cruddy, 3D-coloured, room or headphone coloured, individually shaped mind and ear-coloured approximation of it. Just get the sounds to how you want them, then test them on other people and different systems and hope for the best, the tweak and iterate.
Over time, I've preferred sounds which are a bit disorienting but can be played at high volume without pain. There's nothing worse than blasting your track only to cringe because the high-hats in that breakbeat or the rez on that synth is tearing your eardrums asunder. I've been doing a lot of research on getting breakbeats to sound very big and textured without irritating the ear when played loud, and I call that chasing good tone. The same thing applies to all sounds, though. It starts with choosing good and appropriate instruments, virtual or otherwise, and carries on through mixing and mastering.
The whole "expensive instruments have better tone" thing is obviously a lie. Advertising.
Sometimes, though, there's a time and place for auditory sadism, for making things that just sound borderline painful. I'd say use it sparingly. In fact, I have plans for a noisecore sideproject called "Half a Direction" where I just go all out on the nasty.
Over time, I've preferred sounds which are a bit disorienting but can be played at high volume without pain. There's nothing worse than blasting your track only to cringe because the high-hats in that breakbeat or the rez on that synth is tearing your eardrums asunder. I've been doing a lot of research on getting breakbeats to sound very big and textured without irritating the ear when played loud, and I call that chasing good tone. The same thing applies to all sounds, though. It starts with choosing good and appropriate instruments, virtual or otherwise, and carries on through mixing and mastering.
The whole "expensive instruments have better tone" thing is obviously a lie. Advertising.
Sometimes, though, there's a time and place for auditory sadism, for making things that just sound borderline painful. I'd say use it sparingly. In fact, I have plans for a noisecore sideproject called "Half a Direction" where I just go all out on the nasty.
http://sendy.bandcamp.com/releases < My new album at Bandcamp! Now pay what you like!
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- KVRAF
- 6325 posts since 18 Jul, 2008 from New York
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- KVRian
- 1100 posts since 9 Jan, 2015 from NY, NY
It's like saying every color labeled as "red" is the same.
I smell bovine excrement here.
I smell bovine excrement here.
Sweet child in time...
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She Changed Her Mind She Changed Her Mind https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=342043
- Banned
- 452 posts since 22 Nov, 2014 from Amsterdam
I just went to their site.
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 16977 posts since 23 Jun, 2010 from north of London ON
Hah!!!!Kriminal wrote:
Barry
If a billion people believe a stupid thing it is still a stupid thing
If a billion people believe a stupid thing it is still a stupid thing
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 16977 posts since 23 Jun, 2010 from north of London ON
Well, I think it is a funny way to start any video 'discussion' that is for sure. He does have another video on "tone as truth" which does a number on the other video...very strange.Deep Purple wrote:It's like saying every color labeled as "red" is the same.
I smell bovine excrement here.
Barry
If a billion people believe a stupid thing it is still a stupid thing
If a billion people believe a stupid thing it is still a stupid thing
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- KVRist
- 353 posts since 22 Feb, 2004
I always end up making rhythm guitars sound way too bright and only realise it once I'm playing it together with the drum track.
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- Rad Grandad
- 38044 posts since 6 Sep, 2003 from Downeast Maine
well here's what I have to say on the subject
The highest form of knowledge is empathy, for it requires us to suspend our egos and live in another's world. It requires profound, purpose‐larger‐than‐the‐self kind of understanding.
