Inappropriate Sample Pack Cover?

[She Changed Her Mind]

So now we should forbid all horror movies because it offends good taste?
We should cancel the news also because *some people might get hurt* while we are watching it?
We should ban metal music because some of it deliberately offends others?
I guess we'd better stop living then. My 2c.

[herodotus]

Not exactly the same thing but... I was in a doughnut shop about 20-25 years ago and had a tee-shirt on that incorporated an Iron Cross in it's logo. It was a surfboard company and definitely not meant to be political or anti-semitic. Anyway, the only other person in the shop was an old woman who got visibly upset and in a strong E. European accent came up to me and start pointing to my shirt asking me "what does it mean, what does it mean". I really didn't know what she was getting at and just said "it's a surfboard company". She looked at me, basically with daggers in her eyes, and pulled up her sleeve and pointed to a tattoo. Like the concentration camp kind... I went home and tossed the shirt.

I guess for me I learned that you should be aware of the impact that having to see whatever imagery might have on the actual victims or their relatives. They're probably out there somewhere whether you personally have to look them in the eye and explain yourself or not....

I don't want to offend anyone, but that is really irrational. The Iron Cross predates Nazi Germany by over a century.

It's like a Japanese American being offended by a California state flag because Californians helped round up Japanese Americans in 1941.

Well two things here I guess... first by that logic there'd be nothing wrong with the swastika since that symbol goes back even much farther still. Though no expert for sure, from my own experience if I had to list "Nazi associates symbols/logo's" or whatever it would be 1) swastika, 2) those "SS" dagger bolts, and 3) the iron cross, in that order. But again that's coming from someone born 15-20 years after the fact.

Second though, seriously I'll have to defer to the lady I upset as to the relevance of the iron cross to nazism. She did look like an expert and clearly had a lot more first hand experience. I had obviously f'ked up her day bringing back what I presume were some horrific memories. I don't know if it was fear or anger but she was shaking.... and it just wasn't worth it to me just so that I could wear some tee-shirt (that now that I think of it was probably a gift anyway).

If you didn't want to offend the irrational feelings of that particular lady, I understand. But remember, the whole world is a potential trigger to someone or another. The fact that some evil person assaulted a girl while listening to a song by Nirvana doesn't make you insensitive for listening to Nirvana with your window open.

[She Changed Her Mind]

And then again, what is supposed to be a nice gesture in one culture could be regarded as the highest form of offense in another culture.

[Robmobius]

It's really up to the individual to make the call. But I certainly wouldn't change something because someone else didn't like it (or thought it was offensive). Someone else's reality is not mine and vice versa.

Imagine you want to use an image of a multiple car crash as cover for your sample pack "Highway Guitars", and nobody likes it - your wife doesn't like it, your kids don't like it, your relatives don't like it, your band mates don't like it, your friends don't like it - you wouldn't change it at all? And you would tell them all they were "self-centered" just because they don't like it?

Imagine a more likely scenario, that I wouldn't use a picture like that in the first place (I’ve said that a number of times now). But I’ll still defend his rights to use it as a cover on a sample pack.

Also, ‘my wife’ would have some influence over me in that department. But some ‘no mark’ who emailed me about something then he or she didn’t like, they would get a less then polite reply telling them to kindly mind there own business.

In context Mr. Sample pack didn't even know about the explosion it came from. And packs like that, often have such pseudo aggressive imagery it makes them 'cool' apparently. So an explosion of some kind is appropriate. But we’ve already said that it was an accident to begin with (as I had already predicted).

At least he’s not got some interest in his sub bass pack.

Except freedom of speech only protects one from governmental hindrance in sharing said speech on public ground -- it however does not protect oneself from repercussions of sharing one's speech otherwise.

That is to say, Freedom of Speech doesn't preclude one from their responsibility in their actions (what they say); I can go stand on the square and shout hateful words.. it doesn't mean I'm not likely to get fired from my job or I should expect other citizens to take these (hypothetical) words lightly (slander or threatening speech as example). It just means the government is bound to lawfully allow me to state my thoughts without fear or governmental reprisal or blockage.

I accept all consequences for my actions... I fully believe in a reciprocal universe. If you use hate speech, and call for violence. Then that is illegal as it should be. Then it becomes a matter for the police. Simple as.

[Compyfox]

And then again, what is supposed to be a nice gesture in one culture could be regarded as the highest form of offense in another culture.

I think this video sums it up pretty well:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VbnBpzrqw7o

[nineofkings]

Then imply that they have superior morals to people who support freedom of speech and artistic freedom.

Here's the thing: the images of the explosion as used here were not intentional references to the Challenger. There was no artistic concept in using the Challenger explosion for this. It was a coincidence.

This needs to be restated. FREEDOM OF SPEECH APPLIES TO INTENTIONAL SPEECH

[chaosWyrM]

what i think is the real story in all this is the shocking number of people who dont instantly recognize the image.

yes i understand how long ago it happened...but it was a major MAJOR deal. it is a significant event in the timeline of multiple arenas. its up there with the hindenburg and the titanic.

id say definitely more significant than at least the hindenburg...possibly the titanic, though there were a lot of financial world leaders and celebrities on the titanic.

Titanic. Are you serious?

yes...im serious, though i dont know exactly what it is youre asking me if im serious about.

[trimph1]

So now we should forbid all horror movies because it offends good taste?
We should cancel the news also because *some people might get hurt* while we are watching it?
We should ban metal music because some of it deliberately offends others?
I guess we'd better stop living then. My 2c.

You reminded me of an old Bloom County cartoon wherein Opus summed this whole thing up...the last frame had him sitting on a bench and watching everyone fleeing from being offended by....LIFE, itself.

[Jace-BeOS]

Not exactly the same thing but... I was in a doughnut shop about 20-25 years ago and had a tee-shirt on that incorporated an Iron Cross in it's logo. It was a surfboard company and definitely not meant to be political or anti-semitic. Anyway, the only other person in the shop was an old woman who got visibly upset and in a strong E. European accent came up to me and start pointing to my shirt asking me "what does it mean, what does it mean". I really didn't know what she was getting at and just said "it's a surfboard company". She looked at me, basically with daggers in her eyes, and pulled up her sleeve and pointed to a tattoo. Like the concentration camp kind... I went home and tossed the shirt.

I guess for me I learned that you should be aware of the impact that having to see whatever imagery might have on the actual victims or their relatives. They're probably out there somewhere whether you personally have to look them in the eye and explain yourself or not....

This is why I like to err on the side of empathy and caution. Sure, offending people is unavoidable. Yes, censorship is a slippery slope. But we can consciously attempt to avoid intentional bad taste. I don't think paying endless lip service to political correctness is either rational or desirable, but I do try to consider how my actions affect others. I respect the emotional reality of my fellow humans because I've learned how important empathy is. Good for you that you took that woman's response to heart.

As for this photo, in general discussion... I'd have recognized it instantly. I'd have found it tasteless and maybe asked them if they knew what the photo was from. I wouldn't necessarily fight with them about it. I wouldn't be offended per se, just judged them as either clueless or tasteless. Neither are good for inspiring sales.

Yes bands have used disturbing imagery for ages, but this is not artistic expression or political commentary, it's just marketing samples. So it's good that they changed it. If they didn't really know, then that's totally cool with me... except for the laziness of the image selection in the first place hah hah

I like to use only images I've created myself. Saves lots of potential trouble... and I have plenty of my own disturbing images to use if that's what I want.

[Lejurai]

Oh, I remember January 1986...

Hey me too! I was 10 months old. Mom's boob was so soft

[Aloysius]

Oh, I remember January 1986...

Hey me too! I was 10 months old. Mom's boob was so soft

I think we can all agree that her boobs were delicious.

[jsp1979]

It probably works to end this thread on that sentiment.