KVR Audio

chaosWyrM · Post by **chaosWyrM** » Fri Jul 17, 2015 10:02 pm

larm wrote:
chaosWyrM wrote:complaining about basslines (and drums) in psytrance is missing the point. its there to provide a solid structure for the other elements to weave around. a complex bassline would detract from the rest of whats going on and create a mess.

to say they "dont have bass" is simply incorrect. they have plenty...it just doesnt move around a lot, and if it did, it would sound like crap.
Hmm, I got bored with psytrance just because of that slogging constant monotonous bass, the atonal fx focus + the sweeping pads/fx counterparts. But the problem is if you introduce key changes and make it more melodically complex the shift becomes just soo dominant and then the melody line must follow ... and a few changes later the entire song turns into some euphoric EDM with inane chord changes+cheesy hooks and fists and panties all over the place, yeaesh

I don't know what I think about psytrance anymore.. At first when I heard it I thought it was fresh, but I must say I find the entire genre to be very conservative. I think I can stand about ~4 hours / year now, and what reaches my ears still sounds the same as it did 5 years ago. And I mean almost every track could be copied into any other track. It's mostly one note melodies with build up, fx, remove kick, build up, fx#2, remove kick ... goto start

BUT my guess for the genre's longevity is that it really captures the trance aspect, like a fever dream where you must constantly repeat the same task to keep sane, live inside that energy bubble. Guess that metal can have that focus as well.

Also take Front 242 Welcome To Paradise ... from 1988, apart from the dated drum sounds, the composition is almost like any "modern" psytrance track (+ features distorted guitars):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3aXGJZmOxBM

i agree that theres way too much psytrance out there thats derivative (thats saying something for a genre like this). there are still gems to find though if you know where to look. ive become much much more critical in my listening of psytrance the past 5 years or so, and really only listen to a couple of particular kinds.

i dont like most of it anymore.

i also agree that the...shall we call it...familiarity of the structure is part of the appeal. it is after all "trance" music and is designed to induce a trance like state. which also accounts for some of the other aspects that people tend to dislike about it.

funny you should bring up 242, as they are one of the industrial bands considered most influential to early goa.

2ZrgE · Post by **2ZrgE** » Sat Jul 18, 2015 10:03 am

Mushy Mushy wrote:
Is it the musicianship perhaps? Or is it the rebelliousness and non-conformity?

I love Psytrance and it's culture and philosophy, but when I see all this Psytrance acts with their Macbooks on stage during those festivals I doubt that this is the right way to connect with nature and Mother Earth again...

Numanoid · Post by **Numanoid** » Sat Jul 18, 2015 8:40 pm

When it comes to metal I reckon that Megadeth - Rust in peace as a masterpiece.

What kind of psytrance album correlate best with that release?

Zexila · Post by **Zexila** » Mon Jul 20, 2015 12:34 am

Numanoid wrote:
Zexila wrote:Even this short one bounces a lot
No, it doesn't, the bass is in F all the way through

To satisfy me the bassline needs to vary a bit by for example going to the key of A B, C or D (which will harmoize well with F) to make it interesting.

But still it bounces, that's the thing with that example, again, there's whole sub genre that do exactly what you like, so yeah, now you know

recursive one · Post by **recursive one** » Mon Jul 20, 2015 9:24 am

Am I the only one who loves latest Infected Mushroom and melodic psytrance in general?

(well, Army of Mushrooms was kinda dissaponting - not becasue of dubstep, but because of subpar melodies and lame song structures - but Black Shawarma and especially Vicious Delicious are pretty good imo).

To me, the contrast between hypnotizing rolling basslines, strange effects, menacing atmospheres and extatic melodies is the essence of psytrance.

Zexila · Post by **Zexila** » Mon Jul 20, 2015 9:52 am

I love melodic psytrance, which many relate to even cheesy, but I never quite liked IM or Megadeth, so there's that.

Numanoid · Post by **Numanoid** » Mon Jul 20, 2015 10:05 am

Zexila wrote:But still it bounces, that's the thing with that example, again, there's whole sub genre that do exactly what you like, so yeah, now you know

OK, maybe I chose the wrong term.

The bassline harmonies need more variation.

Karma_tba · Post by **Karma_tba** » Mon Jul 20, 2015 10:46 am

Sorry I can't relate....especially to the dark death themed material. I guess when you are really faced with your mortality(Cancer Stage 4 inoperable,incurable) death takes on a different meaning.

lofty · Post by **lofty** » Tue Jul 21, 2015 10:37 pm

.....

lofty · Post by **lofty** » Tue Jul 21, 2015 10:56 pm

.....

Karma_tba · Post by **Karma_tba** » Wed Jul 22, 2015 12:02 am

lofty wrote:I think some of the shock value of names/artwork of metal is mostly to annoy parents of teenagers rather than being for grown-ups. That and also a sense of fierce assertive strength in opposition to some of the flaws of mainstream society. There's a few studies that show metallers to mostly be lovely types and even listening to intense stuff can have a positive effect on mood for some.

Perhaps as well, a scene that looks fierce from the outside can help folk feel safer a bit inside of it all - like instead of a misfit teenager you can be a Viking rock/techno warrior or something instead.

Both metal & psytrance could do with chilling out a bit and cooperating a bit more with what tempos/rhythms work best for dancing, in my opinion, but lots of brilliant tunes in amongst anyhow.

Your points are well taken, a thoughtful logical response. My situation makes me hypersensitive, but I am just one man, who am I to deny the youth their fun.

zethus909 · Post by **zethus909** » Wed Jul 22, 2015 2:39 am

[they both lack melody and soul

recursive one · Post by **recursive one** » Wed Jul 22, 2015 12:31 pm

Inversoundzzz wrote:[they both lack melody and soul

I once watched a heavy metal guitar video course, where the guy talked that "a melody is a sequence of notes, regardless of whether somebody finds it pleasant it or not".

In this sense you are completely wrong.

Moreover, perhaps the "soul" can be defined in some similar way.

Numanoid · Post by **Numanoid** » Wed Jul 22, 2015 12:57 pm

Inversoundzzz wrote:they both lack .... soul

+1

Soul, funk and groove isn't what metal and psytrance is about

Is not music to get down to, but rigidly gyrate to someway or the other, with one or several body parts.

recursive one · Post by **recursive one** » Wed Jul 22, 2015 1:21 pm

You may want to google Talpa- The Art of Being Non or The Path or Terrafractyl - Imagining and Fabrications (just to name a few). This pretty much may be not your cup of tea but if you would say that it lacks melody and groove, then we probably put different meaning into these words.

Of course, there are many boring guys here and there making crappy formulaic psytrance, crappy formulaic metal, crappy formulaic blues or whatever.

What's the correlation: Psytrance & Metal