Endless possibilities - but everyone thinking along the same route?

[stratum]

One of the most creative eras in western music is traced to 68's, not surprisingly. A group of hippies were following people like Timothy Leary and profound social changes were happening in that time. The reason? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lysergic_ ... ethylamide Elves were talking to them in the 'silence'.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4zLfCnGVeL4

[ghettosynth]

admittedly, i haven't really read much of it...

I haven't either. It seems to be lost in details that do not actually matter.

I think that which details matter depends quite a bit on your perspective of, wait for it, what matters.

With respect to the OPs point, you seem to be overthinking this a bit. There is a vast ocean of music that is not "thinking along the same route." The OP's entire premise is flawed and self-centered. Of course, the bitter team is all too willing to agree with the premise if it supports their prejudice.

[stratum]

The problem with the OPs point is answered with this statement, as chk071 also quotes:

You can't expect anyone to ride before they learn to walk.

That's all there is to it.

[camsr]

"idiot syncopation"

Some "music" doesn't attempt to push the limits of creativity, and that's ok.

Where you here? It's record after record of people that can't be arsed to do more than copy the other record.
It's an extremely stupid and annoying idea even done once.
It's profoundly stupid music, and my take on it is not what is ridiculous. I am in favor of creativity, YMMV.

I'm pretty sure that he wasn't asking for, yet more, crude judgement from you. Rather, he was asking for you to defend your POV from an intellectual perspective. I'm just trying to help out here since you seem to be completely misunderstanding so much in this conversation.

I was trying to say, if you can't enjoy simplicity, a lot of music won't appeal to you.

[stratum]

I suspect some of that 'simple' music simply suffered from a lack of advanced aftertouch capability on early midi keyboards and analog synths and took an overly simplistic approach to musical expression. I expect that to change.

[ghettosynth]

"idiot syncopation"

Some "music" doesn't attempt to push the limits of creativity, and that's ok.

Where you here? It's record after record of people that can't be arsed to do more than copy the other record.
It's an extremely stupid and annoying idea even done once.
It's profoundly stupid music, and my take on it is not what is ridiculous. I am in favor of creativity, YMMV.

I'm pretty sure that he wasn't asking for, yet more, crude judgement from you. Rather, he was asking for you to defend your POV from an intellectual perspective. I'm just trying to help out here since you seem to be completely misunderstanding so much in this conversation.

I was trying to say, if you can't enjoy simplicity, a lot of music won't appeal to you.

IIRC, you asked a question, yes? "What has to happen here?" or something, I'm too lazy to go back and quote right now.

But, yes, I agree, but I'll go further, you don't even have to enjoy it, you simply won't be able to appreciate it for it's contribution if you don't understand the value of simplicity. You can say "I don't like it" all you want to, there's no argument there. We all like what we like, but to say that it's "stupid" or "idiotic" because it doesn't appeal to you is, well, I think we all know what that is.

[woggle]

admittedly, i haven't really read much of it...

I haven't either. It seems to be lost in details that do not actually matter.

I think that which details matter depend quite a bit on your perspective of, wait for it, what matters.

With respect to the OPs point, you seem to be overthinking this a bit. There is a vast ocean of music that is not "thinking along the same route." The OP's entire premise is flawed and self-centered. Of course, the bitter team is all to willing to agree with the premise if it supports their prejudice.

there has never been so much great creative art - the problem is finding it amongst the dross that capitalism ensures will be plopped front and center into your awareness over and over and over again

[Michael L]

there has never been so much great creative art - the problem is finding it

That's it. I use Spotify to closely study contemporary composers I like; then I see who they like, and build a network of new possibilities. I'm doing that right now with Terry Riley's "The Book of Abbeyozzud"

[foosnark]

Nobody in the west had a different theory of music since the days of J.S. Bach.

Yeah, let's just ignore the Futurists, ametric rhythm, atonal music, 12-tone music, post-tonal music, spectralism, etc.

[harryupbabble]

Nobody in the west had a different theory of music since the days of J.S. Bach.

Yeah, let's just ignore the Futurists, ametric rhythm, atonal music, 12-tone music, post-tonal music, spectralism, etc.

Ignore might not be the right word but the host of this documentary seems to want to. I think he called it "damage".
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZQS91wVdvYc

[stratum]

Yeah, let's just ignore the Futurists, ametric rhythm, atonal music, 12-tone music, post-tonal music, spectralism, etc.

I knew somebody would mention atonal music and serialists, I'm not sure that's actually different, but yeah, somebody tried and faced the obvious limit - that many people do not hear their theory in action. What one can compose and communicate to the listener is limited by the listener. I don't know what the words 'futurist' and 'spectralism' refer to, perhaps they actually did something different. Would you elaborate and explain?

[xoxos]

What one can compose and communicate to the listener is limited by the listener.

one thing very few kvr members demonstrate any awareness of,

when you cut into the present, the future leaks through

using "as non-weighted as can be" generative method exhibits the structure of language, the mechanisms of memetics. if you don't bastard the build trying to make it be something, an algorithmic process can reflect the listener to themselves, which generally is only accomplished with antimusic most people may not expose themselves to, since it's practically the only true music today, truth not concerning musicianship.

so technically, this is delimiting

but maybe your right, because otherwise you'd have listened to 'dope beats for suckers' and have exhibited acknowledgement of ..unparalleled expression of "the medium".

i think, it would be keen, like, if more people could transcend their certainty, like what you said. to use brain good, for function during the life.

[woggle]

What one can compose and communicate to the listener is limited by the listener. I

or one could say that the listener provides an opportunity for communication

[stratum]

xoxos - honestly I havent understood what you have meant. Returning back to atonal music, I actually do not think that they have a different theory. They know the theory damn well, pushed it to the limits and turned it upside down and made it unrecognizable to most people. That's a denial of the theory and does not look like a new one to me. yeah it is 'delimiting' perhaps, for those who can make sense of it. perhaps you weren't even referring to them. I don't know.

[nineofkings]

xoxos - honestly I havent understood what you have meant. Returning back to atonal music, I actually do not think that they have a different theory. They know the theory damn well, pushed it to the limits and turned it upside down and made it unrecognizable to most people. That's a denial of the theory and does not look like a new one to me. yeah it is 'delimiting' perhaps, for those who can make sense of it. perhaps you weren't even referring to them. I don't know.

What is "recognizable" is so because it's familiar. People recognize what they're used to. So the reason people aren't used to atonality is because it's... new. If you change something to the point that it's something else, that is now a new thing. Nothing just happens fully formed out of nowhere.