The reason I ask is
If one of your students came to you and said I want to learn to write a song.
Where do i start. What Would you say to them.
Here's the thing a mate of mine is thinking about paying a fortune for one of these famous mentors on the songwriting academy.
But what can you learn from a mentor that you couldn't learn for free on a forum such as this or youtube etc.
Are there any music mentors on this site
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- KVRist
- 219 posts since 4 Mar, 2011
I say; - Imitate what you like and just do it.
We all imitate, it's inevitable and your own voice will always shine thru. It's not like learning another skill where bending the "rules" can be a bad thing. Writing songs that is different is a goal in itself so not knowing too much about how it's always been done can actually be a good thing.
It's a different story when learning an instrument to play in a band then you really need a common language and can learn a lot from others. Forget about songwriting academies unless you want to sound exactly like someone else, what's the point of that?
We all imitate, it's inevitable and your own voice will always shine thru. It's not like learning another skill where bending the "rules" can be a bad thing. Writing songs that is different is a goal in itself so not knowing too much about how it's always been done can actually be a good thing.
It's a different story when learning an instrument to play in a band then you really need a common language and can learn a lot from others. Forget about songwriting academies unless you want to sound exactly like someone else, what's the point of that?
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- KVRAF
- 8414 posts since 4 Jul, 2012 from Alesia
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- KVRAF
- 25053 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from gonesville
If the 'student' has it in him/her, they'll do it themselves with no "mentoring" at all. They should get out in the world and learn from actual people in real time in authentic exchanges. A life in music. Organically. That's a scam, that shit is for suckers.
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- KVRAF
- 2598 posts since 8 Sep, 2009
jancivil wrote:If the 'student' has it in him/her, they'll do it themselves with no "mentoring" at all. They should get out in the world and learn from actual people in real time in authentic exchanges. A life in music. Organically. That's a scam, that shit is for suckers.
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- KVRAF
- 2279 posts since 20 Dec, 2002 from The Benighted States of Trumpistan
Mozart studied, and achieved complete success.
BB King played, and achieved complete success.
I think it has more to do with your talent and will to succeed, honestly. But I think you should take advantage yourself of all the opportunities available. It doesn't seem to matter if you learn of possibilities through a book or through your ears.
To everybody: best of luck, and make some music!
BB King played, and achieved complete success.
I think it has more to do with your talent and will to succeed, honestly. But I think you should take advantage yourself of all the opportunities available. It doesn't seem to matter if you learn of possibilities through a book or through your ears.
To everybody: best of luck, and make some music!
Wait... loot _then_ burn? D'oh!
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- KVRAF
- 8414 posts since 4 Jul, 2012 from Alesia
Mozart was also extremely intelligent, quite possibly a genius.
https://www.thoughtco.com/profile-of-wo ... rt-2456103
https://www.thoughtco.com/wolfgang-amad ... igy-723779
Not everyone can be a mozart.
https://www.thoughtco.com/profile-of-wo ... rt-2456103
https://www.thoughtco.com/wolfgang-amad ... igy-723779
Not everyone can be a mozart.
Last edited by V0RT3X on Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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- KVRAF
- 25053 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from gonesville
Mozart is not a great example since he could transcribe full orchestrations as a small child and was composing quite early. But he appeared to have an orthodox musical education. Which was not part of the question at_all. Get_out_in_the_world and have an authentic exchange with people. It may or may not mean going to school or finding a teacher.
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- KVRAF
- 3186 posts since 18 Mar, 2008
Plenty in short time and exactly what you need in every point in time.Paul8447 wrote:But what can you learn from a mentor that you couldn't learn for free on a forum such as this or youtube etc.
I'm known locally as "the guy that makes music" and was happy to teach anyone that approached me everything I know, spent days and nights with them trying to make that journey as enjoyable as possible.
This entire forum is wading through predictions, opinions, barely formed thoughts, drama, and whining. If you don't enjoy that, why are you here? 
ShawnG
ShawnG-
- KVRAF
- 2598 posts since 8 Sep, 2009
edit:
A'right, nobody cried out loud, so the (industry) fake wasn't that obvious.
Therefore I withdraw the post, leaving us with the question if Mozart might have been the very first marketing subject in music history...
A'right, nobody cried out loud, so the (industry) fake wasn't that obvious.
Therefore I withdraw the post, leaving us with the question if Mozart might have been the very first marketing subject in music history...
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- KVRAF
- 25053 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from gonesville
the actual question you're answering involves this:Zexila wrote:Plenty in short time and exactly what you need in every point in time.Paul8447 wrote:But what can you learn from a mentor that you couldn't learn for free on a forum such as this or youtube etc.
https://www.facebook.com/thesongwritingacademy/
<one-day songwriting course, 27 pound
And I tend to doubt you'd have had "exactly what" I "need in/sic every point in time". Even if you could read minds.
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- KVRAF
- 3186 posts since 18 Mar, 2008
Wasn't talking about that specific thing, but mentoring globally, my bad probably.jancivil wrote:the actual question you're answering involves this:Zexila wrote:Plenty in short time and exactly what you need in every point in time.Paul8447 wrote:But what can you learn from a mentor that you couldn't learn for free on a forum such as this or youtube etc.
https://www.facebook.com/thesongwritingacademy/
<one-day songwriting course, 27 pound
And I tend to doubt you'd have had "exactly what" I "need in/sic every point in time". Even if you could read minds.
This entire forum is wading through predictions, opinions, barely formed thoughts, drama, and whining. If you don't enjoy that, why are you here? ShawnG
ShawnG-
- KVRAF
- 2448 posts since 12 Sep, 2004
Some of the best songs ever written and recorded are some of the simplest ever written and recorded. Simple and repetitive structure. Simple but effective hooks. Depends on the type of song you want to write, but whatever the style, start simple and build on top of that. Or maybe just keep it simple forever if that's your thing. For example I posted in the "favorite bass lines" thread the song "Low Rider" by War. It's literally 1 chord, repetitive lyrical structure, and a cool horn hook... but I love it because of it's simplicity and grooviness. Another good example is James Brown's "Gonna Have a Funky Good Time". It's all about the jam, and is about as uncomplicated as you could get. Lots of other blues and rock examples, of course, but the same principal can certainly apply to any other genre...
The hard part, IMO, is being a effective lyricist, if your song needs that. I think it's hard to not fall into trite cliches... stuff about "lights of the boulevard" and overly mushy love stuff... but also avoiding over use of rhyming... to her husband Yoko Ono once famously said "you're a good songwriter, but it's not moon-June-or-spoon songs that you write". My stuff is primarily instrumental (I'm a hobbyist, BTW) so I don't make lyrics a particular focus... but even there simplicity can be your friend.
The hard part, IMO, is being a effective lyricist, if your song needs that. I think it's hard to not fall into trite cliches... stuff about "lights of the boulevard" and overly mushy love stuff... but also avoiding over use of rhyming... to her husband Yoko Ono once famously said "you're a good songwriter, but it's not moon-June-or-spoon songs that you write". My stuff is primarily instrumental (I'm a hobbyist, BTW) so I don't make lyrics a particular focus... but even there simplicity can be your friend.
You need to limit that rez, bro.
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- KVRAF
- 25053 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from gonesville
Well, the word mentor suggests a thing that I would avoid in learning musical craft. Mentor takes you under his/her wing and you're like apprenticing or something. It's like a guru. The danger is someone who will be creating a Mini Me out of it. I say get out and ask questions of everybody you can who has anything you don't know going on. And get a lot of different influence and experience playing with people. But be social and be persistent, don't worry about being a pest, most people are happy to be asked IME.
Conversely, Indian Classical Musicians get a guru and live in his house and be a servant to the mofo for years. That's a discipline which has very established practices. Songwriting was the idea in the OP and that rather requires individuation and developing one's own personality if it's going to be compelling as an art form type of deal.
Conversely, Indian Classical Musicians get a guru and live in his house and be a servant to the mofo for years. That's a discipline which has very established practices. Songwriting was the idea in the OP and that rather requires individuation and developing one's own personality if it's going to be compelling as an art form type of deal.
