Gibson guitars in big financial trouble

[CrystalWizard]

The Gibson debacle is a prime example of how just one a$$hole can destroy a whole heritage. It's happening in many area like other music tools and even in movies and such. Greed, stupidity, short sightedness.

[Hink]

http://ultimateclassicrock.com/gibson-b ... ar-stores/

[Jace-BeOS]

http://ultimateclassicrock.com/gibson-b ... ar-stores/

Actually, I agree with everything the article quoted him as saying.

[Harry_HH]

http://ultimateclassicrock.com/gibson-b ... ar-stores/

Actually, I agree with everything the article quoted him as saying.

So the stores are guilty?

[stratum]

So the stores are guilty?

This is a pretty bad excuse for producing guitars with a price tag of $5000 in an age of automation.

[vurt]

So the stores are guilty?

This is a pretty bad excuse for producing guitars with a price tag of $5000 in an age of automation.

the problem isn't even the price tag at that level the problem seems to be qc. if im paying that kind of money for anything i at least want it looked at by a professional luthier before it leaves the factory.
there is no excuse for bad frets or any other almost obvious when you pick it up fault.

the odd one might get through, but it does seem when trying out gibson in the local shop the good ones are rarer sadly.
conversely the epiphones seem to have better workmanship, but obviously the cheaper parts.

[stratum]

the problem isn't even the price tag at that level the problem seems to be qc. if im paying that kind of money for anything i at least want it looked at by a professional luthier before it leaves the factory.
there is no excuse for bad frets or any other almost obvious when you pick it up fault.

Assuming that the setup takes a few hours, at about $80 max per hour + about $1500 for the guitar itself (I would consider that to be overpriced also, but anyway, I'm just trying to find a reasonable estimate) the result makes about $1800. Looks like the rest is for having a Gibson label printed on the headstock. Additionally if that 3 hours long setup job wasn't even done properly, then it becomes ridiculous.

[Harry_HH]

This interview is from 2011. When I look at this, you just wonder how come the board of directors didn´t react earlier...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O0znHGl1998

[Jace-BeOS]

http://ultimateclassicrock.com/gibson-b ... ar-stores/

Actually, I agree with everything the article quoted him as saying.

So the stores are guilty?

Note: I said I agree with what he was quoted as saying. Not the title. The title sounds like he's just passing the buck, but there's more to the article than that.

I absolutely do think Gibson is horribly mismanaged. But I also do agree with his criticisms of the guitar shops. I don't think they're the entirety of the cause, just a contribution. Even as a white male heterosexual musician, I've felt most music shops with lots of guitars are elitist, uncomfortable, and unfriendly. The Yelp reviews in my area show this. Sure, shops vary, and some are probably run by wonderful people, but I don't think they are, in general, what the experience of music should be like for the populous who walks into them, including the hobbyist or beginner musician.

[vurt]

the problem isn't even the price tag at that level the problem seems to be qc. if im paying that kind of money for anything i at least want it looked at by a professional luthier before it leaves the factory.
there is no excuse for bad frets or any other almost obvious when you pick it up fault.

Assuming that the setup takes a few hours, at about $80 max per hour + about $1500 for the guitar itself (I would consider that to be overpriced also, but anyway, I'm just trying to find a reasonable estimate) the result makes about $1800. Looks like the rest is for having a Gibson label printed on the headstock. Additionally if that 3 hours long setup job wasn't even done properly, then it becomes ridiculous.

i agree, but when the gibson label meant top level quality, then a higher price tag was accepted by people, not like they've only recently become expensive. but once the quality is lacking then a premium price isn't getting a premium product.

[Hink]

http://ultimateclassicrock.com/gibson-b ... ar-stores/

Actually, I agree with everything the article quoted him as saying.

So the stores are guilty?

Note: I said I agree with what he was quoted as saying. Not the title. The title sounds like he's just passing the buck, but there's more to the article than that.

I absolutely do think Gibson is horribly mismanaged. But I also do agree with his criticisms of the guitar shops. I don't think they're the entirety of the cause, just a contribution. Even as a white male heterosexual musician, I've felt most music shops with lots of guitars are elitist, uncomfortable, and unfriendly. The Yelp reviews in my area show this. Sure, shops vary, and some are probably run by wonderful people, but I don't think they are, in general, what the experience of music should be like for the populous who walks into them, including the hobbyist or beginner musician.

hmmm...I see your point but I'm thinking you were never in music retail. I worked in a store that was suppose to be comfortable to musicians, MARs and that was the whole premise of the chain. It failed miserably.

Back to Gibson pointing fingers, sales people need to put food on the table. Do you think because a Gibson is so expensive that is the only factor in a commission? A huge part is profit margin, of course you have sell "x" amount of dollars worth to meet your draw but after that in the stores I worked at our commission rate(%) varied by our PM. If I had a customer come in with 3 grand to spend and they spend three grand on just a guitar yes I'm getting closer to my draw but my PM will be minimal as I have no control. If said customer comes in an spends 1k on a guitar, 1k on an amp and the rest on other things they want they do indeed walk out feeling better about all they got and I still gain the same distance to my draw but I can shoot my PM up with ease.

I think many people do not know that the company sets the price an item can sell for, sell it for too low and the store could lose that company all together. Sales people have no duty to honor any particular company, their number one concern is their bottom dollar. Couple that with the customer's wishes and the stores are doing what it takes to stay afloat.

A more comfortable store will be a cool hangout with more overhead, it will probably take business from other stores but not likely to change the big picture much for companies like Gibson.

The bigger concern is the demise of the brick and mortar store which the billion dollar company wants to now use to blame and cry boo hoo. The real sad part is said stores do not sell just Gibson, they are losing money on everything they sell because of the internet, Gibson blaming them is pathetic at best and it shows how little they care for those who served them well and help keep them in the top ranks for so many years and Gibson only cares about their bottom dollar, not the small music store that is upside down and struggling...sorry that's just wrong in my opinion

[Bombadil]

As an aside, when I moved here, I tried to support a local brick and mortar shop, but it is run by a smarmy old-school douche with an oily, shark smile who deals very shadily. Seen one too many of those in my time.
Basically, I had no option but to go internet sales. Here, though, they won't cut their own throat to make a sale. I've gotten some deals on Taylors here, and a few others, but that's about it. Different culture. The ONE Gibson acoustic I played and loved, a J-29, another local shop wouldn't move a penny on the price. This after me buying €8,000 worth of guitars from them. So, I passed. A bit later, they were being cleared out at about €300 cheaper, ordered one online, and, of course, it was a dud.

[machinesworking]

Everything points to Henry, period.
Music stores have always sucked, fun fact, half the people behind the counter are failed musicians, and angry about it, it's no wonder the whole vibe sucks in them.

The government doesn't like you buying banned woods, pets, etc. not a surprise and he's lying about the law there.

If they brought Les Paul Customs down to even $2500, put a bit of QC on them, they would be doing very very well.

[Jace-BeOS]

http://ultimateclassicrock.com/gibson-b ... ar-stores/

Actually, I agree with everything the article quoted him as saying.

So the stores are guilty?

Note: I said I agree with what he was quoted as saying. Not the title. The title sounds like he's just passing the buck, but there's more to the article than that.

I absolutely do think Gibson is horribly mismanaged. But I also do agree with his criticisms of the guitar shops. I don't think they're the entirety of the cause, just a contribution. Even as a white male heterosexual musician, I've felt most music shops with lots of guitars are elitist, uncomfortable, and unfriendly. The Yelp reviews in my area show this. Sure, shops vary, and some are probably run by wonderful people, but I don't think they are, in general, what the experience of music should be like for the populous who walks into them, including the hobbyist or beginner musician.

hmmm...I see your point but I'm thinking you were never in music retail. I worked in a store that was suppose to be comfortable to musicians, MARs and that was the whole premise of the chain. It failed miserably.

Back to Gibson pointing fingers, sales people need to put food on the table. Do you think because a Gibson is so expensive that is the only factor in a commission? A huge part is profit margin, of course you have sell "x" amount of dollars worth to meet your draw but after that in the stores I worked at our commission rate(%) varied by our PM. If I had a customer come in with 3 grand to spend and they spend three grand on just a guitar yes I'm getting closer to my draw but my PM will be minimal as I have no control. If said customer comes in an spends 1k on a guitar, 1k on an amp and the rest on other things they want they do indeed walk out feeling better about all they got and I still gain the same distance to my draw but I can shoot my PM up with ease.

I think many people do not know that the company sets the price an item can sell for, sell it for too low and the store could lose that company all together. Sales people have no duty to honor any particular company, their number one concern is their bottom dollar. Couple that with the customer's wishes and the stores are doing what it takes to stay afloat.

A more comfortable store will be a cool hangout with more overhead, it will probably take business from other stores but not likely to change the big picture much for companies like Gibson.

The bigger concern is the demise of the brick and mortar store which the billion dollar company wants to now use to blame and cry boo hoo. The real sad part is said stores do not sell just Gibson, they are losing money on everything they sell because of the internet, Gibson blaming them is pathetic at best and it shows how little they care for those who served them well and help keep them in the top ranks for so many years and Gibson only cares about their bottom dollar, not the small music store that is upside down and struggling...sorry that's just wrong in my opinion

I don't disagree with anything you've said here. I think Gibson is full of crap to blame the stores. I just agreed with specific complaints about music/instrument shops.

I had an idea for a business that I can never actually start because it would need a huge amount of up front capital to start it, but it's meant to solve the "we have no way of getting hands on with products" problem consumers face, while accepting that online retailers offer lower prices by having lower overhead from not running stores.

So I accept that the real world stores are suffering across the board and I hate the idea that I can't walk into a store to buy things (like the replacement power adapter I just bought for my AirPort Extreme) or get any hands-on experience with, say, a Roli Seaboard at a shop before spending lots of money ordering one online and then dealing with all the hassle of return or RMA if it turns out I don't like it.

Gibson cannot blame this on guitar stores. If they really are trying to, they're idiots. It just seemed to me that the article was pushing that blame more than the actual quotes were.

[Jace-BeOS]

As an aside, when I moved here, I tried to support a local brick and mortar shop, but it is run by a smarmy old-school douche with an oily, shark smile who deals very shadily. Seen one too many of those in my time.

This is reminding me of a local store in my area...