Real versus Sampled drums: the neglected flamewar.

[jancivil]

I hear what you are saying: "But there are subtleties" - yes. but it's usually not happening. It's the same with any vi.

I would say, rather, that they happen all of the time, but that no one really cares about these subtle details. I am not even sure that I care about them, at least for my own music.

"not happening" is just a figure of speech. I'm a beatnik or something.

We're saying the same thing but at cross-purposes now, not sure why. I care more than anybody around about it probably. I don't find your super-exotic scenarios that exotic really, in fact.

[herodotus]

I hear what you are saying: "But there are subtleties" - yes. but it's usually not happening. It's the same with any vi.

I would say, rather, that they happen all of the time, but that no one really cares about these subtle details. I am not even sure that I care about them, at least for my own music.

"not happening" is just a figure of speech. I'm a beatnik or something.

We're saying the same thing but at cross-purposes now, not sure why.

Because WAR!! That's why.

I don't find your super-exotic scenarios that exotic really, in fact.

Drummers, since the very beginning of the drum kit, have been individualistic as a matter of necessity. Drum kits started as collections of drums and cymbals that were not designed to be used together in the way that they were. And to this day, there is no standard drum kit in the way that there is a standard piano or a standard tenor saxophone. There is no standard repertoire for the drum kit, nor a collection of skills that you need to master to call yourself a kit drummer.

This makes sampling a drum kit a bit different from sampling a piano.

[Aloysius]

When live drums are recorded, they become samples, so who cares? Make love, not war.

[pljones]

When sampled drums are triggered and the performance recorded, that becomes a recording... ;P

[el-bo (formerly ebow)]

The only way to do it would be to design the sample set around their idiosyncrasies from the bottom up. And why would anyone put that amount of work into such a niche product?

Exactly! So, sampled drums are not inherently worse. All that is required is for the kits, hits, articulations, velocities, round-robin's etc. to be recorded. The end market demand will likely resign it to 'labour of love' status, but it is not really so difficult if you already have everything in place for that kind of thing

[Sampleconstruct]

I'm in the process of mixing some studio sessions my brother and I did together with a 7-piece band including two drummers. Phase-aligning all those mic signals, coping with the cross-feed, deleting all those untight kicks and rim shots, what a PITA...

No, actually it's awesome and I love the combo of two drummers, even when played a bit sloppy...

[D-Fusion]

Sampled drums makes you fat and Real drums makes you fit

[Hink]

Sampled drums makes you fat and Real drums makes you fit

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-te49oUpo4

ftr I am in no way passing judgment nor am I calling anyone names, they made the video, they named it and they put it on youtube I felt obligated to share this find which also just might speak to my point of what happens when there is a drumset in the room and the attraction there of...I apologize for the sound quality, it's not your speakers

[herodotus]

When live drums are recorded, they become samples, so who cares? Make love, not war.

Oh, I see. First you want to exile drummers from the company of other musicians, and now you wuss out when it gets a little rough?


(In case it isn't obvious, the words written above are not to be taken seriously.)

[herodotus]

The only way to do it would be to design the sample set around their idiosyncrasies from the bottom up. And why would anyone put that amount of work into such a niche product?

Exactly! So, sampled drums are not inherently worse. All that is required is for the kits, hits, articulations, velocities, round-robin's etc. to be recorded. The end market demand will likely resign it to 'labour of love' status, but it is not really so difficult if you already have everything in place for that kind of thing

Well it isn't just making the samples, it's mapping them in a practical way that can be played by people with only two hands and ten fingers.

But I will acknowledge that the only thing standing in the way of a sample set that accurately captures the sound of Bill Bruford's drumming is about 500 man hours of unpaid labor.

Easy Peasy.

[jancivil]

There is no standard repertoire for the drum kit, nor a collection of skills that you need to master to call yourself a kit drummer.

If you can't hack Mary, Mary by the Monkees you aren't so much a drummer.

[jancivil]

Sampled drums makes you fat and Real drums makes you fit

fat IS fit

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qQJHOAkbb_g

[pljones]

Can we start on brush kits now?

[Russell Grand]

Sampled Drums will never be able to replace a Real Drum performance

Two different things. The sounds are not the performance.

I'd take David 'Fingers' Haynes on a drum machine over an amateur with 20gig of multi-sampled kit:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oThXwURLLhs

Damn, he's awesome!

[el-bo (formerly ebow)]

Can we start on brush kits now?

Oh shit! I completely forgot about that brush-kit thread