Do you use construction kits?

[jancivil]

just really kinda sad -- why take all the fun outta putting shit together in your track?

Evidently many people are interested in having bragging rights to having 'made sum beatz', feeling entitled to a result, rather than the rich experience of getting really involved with music from the ground up.

[jancivil]

I suppose y'all never use presets either?

That looks like a reach for an equivalence to me.

As per drums, I'm using 'samples' [BFD2] but I create a drum part from scratch. The timing is my timing. If someone is not, I wonder if they can't. I know people around here that rely on a machine, and guess what? I can tell. That's my point of view. I'd rather work as hard as I work and I'm sure it's my approach, my decisions, my time, my taste. My chops.

I don't mind if something takes ten times longer than someone that produces a track every couple days with Stylus RMX, I enjoy the work, I prefer the challenge, to have to BE the bass player and the drummer et cetera advances my musicianship, and that's the reason I do this.

Now, I have things in my VSL percussion that are essentially loops, but they do not determine basic rhythm. So I can see using some loops as time savers. Or the gestures in say a sax library. Yet, you have to know what to choose; this is the distinction for me. And for someone where this isn't the more serious level of hobby, or a songwriter making demos, I'm not dogmatic really.

But there are people that use them that use them because that's the only way they'll have something to show, and it occurs to me this is their real drive, in a hurry to show something... they cheat themselves before they cheat the audience.

[danbroad]

presets, loops yes. Love 'em, especially as I have no illusions of world domination with any of my music. But Songs ripped apart into stems are just like an audio jigsaw to me.... I'd just end up piecing them back together as they were in the first place.

[sjm]

Never used them and don't really see the point, unless you're chopping them up and mangling them so as to create something indistinguishable from the original. I'm never quite sure who these things are marketed at either - in particular the full melodic lines.

[vurt]

I'm never quite sure who these things are marketed at either - in particular the full melodic lines.

i found a couple of packs usful in the past when working with two seperate singers, neither of whom played any instrument. i wasnt and am not into rnb or the dance pop stuff ala britney/christia type stuff. so it was useful to put together backing tracks which i could then work from, aside from drums on a couple of the rnb tracks, nothing from the construction kits was heard in the final tracks, all replaced by either me on keys or session musos for guitar, bass and most of the drums.
they can be useful i guess for others who dont play but do write lyrics, good for getting ideas down maybe?
or for building backing tracks to practice if you do play.

i dont use presets, mainly as i enjoy the process of sound design. but i dont see any problem with using aything, doesnt hurt me in any way if someone uses a prewritten melodic loop, a percussion loop or a preset from a factory bank. so long as youre having fun and no one is being hurt, who cares?

[whyterabbyt]

some people use them because they have deadlines to work to.
some people use them because they're focussed on a different part of the artistic process, like singing.
some people use them as placeholders until they replace them with their own material.
some people use them to learn from, or with.
some people use them because they like to repurpose material, in or out of its original context.
some people use them because they're just having fun.
some people use them because they dont know better(*)
some people use them because they're lazy(*)
some people use them for more than one of the above reasons
some people use them for none of the above reasons

(*) which is ironic because the stereotypical reasons presented as to why uses them and why, tend to be lazy or from people who dont know better too.

[SampleScience]

some people use them because they have deadlines to work to.
some people use them because they're focussed on a different part of the artistic process, like singing.
some people use them as placeholders until they replace them with their own material.
some people use them to learn from, or with.
some people use them because they like to repurpose material, in or out of its original context.
some people use them because they're just having fun.
some people use them because they dont know better(*)
some people use them because they're lazy(*)
some people use them for more than one of the above reasons
some people use them for none of the above reasons

(*) which is ironic because the stereotypical reasons presented as to why uses them and why, tend to be lazy or from people who dont know better too.

It sums it up! I like to repurpose material out of its original context. I also use construction kits to learn from genre I not familiar with, it is very useful to have all the separate tracks piece by piece. It shows how sounds are mix in different genres, very useful!!

[Tricky-Loops]

some people use them because they have deadlines to work to.
some people use them because they're focussed on a different part of the artistic process, like singing.
some people use them as placeholders until they replace them with their own material.
some people use them to learn from, or with.
some people use them because they like to repurpose material, in or out of its original context.
some people use them because they're just having fun.
some people use them because they dont know better(*)
some people use them because they're lazy(*)
some people use them for more than one of the above reasons
some people use them for none of the above reasons

That's an interesting list, it shows that you must be a programmer (looks like code)...

[djpuzzle]

presets, loops yes. Love 'em, especially as I have no illusions of world domination with any of my music. But Songs ripped apart into stems are just like an audio jigsaw to me.... I'd just end up piecing them back together as they were in the first place.

That's how I got my Dj Name! I don't use them though, I make them.

[Tricky-Loops]

Thanks for all the interesting replies...

I DO love (and use) LOOPS (but I wanna have TRICKY LOOPS), but I always have a problem with loops with melodic content. Because in most cases the scale, key(s) and chord progressions aren't indicated, and so I never know if they fit into my track. Now before I search hours of hours in all construction kits for suitable synthesizer phrases, I'll better write them myself. That's the reason why I avoid construction kits. And it's a bit difficult to chop up chord progressions (unless there is a MIDI file)...

But it seems to be a nice idea to use construction kits to learn new music styles. Though, I prefer to listen to whole songs and learn simply by listening (and analyzing).

[vurt]

Though, I prefer to listen to whole songs and learn simply by listening (and analyzing).

theres a grand in it if you can write me 5 or 6 tracks in a style youve never paid much attention to by friday...

thats the kind of request you might get in a studio if youre doing it for cash

[Xenobt]

As a composer, I like loops and construction kits for working authentically in styles I'm not that comfortable in, and those that have very specific performance nuances like jazz or blues drumming, or solo horns of any kind. Midi versions of those things stick out immediately to me, so if I can't afford a session player, loops it is!

As a studio manager/engineer, it's also great to have hip hop or r&b construction kits around so when new artists cold call the studio and ask, "You got beats?" I can say yes and get the gig. Even if we don't end up using them, it's a great way to get them in the door and start a relationship where you may end up writing for/with them for album credit or points.

I used to be a snob about it, but now I just see them like an arpeggiator, I didn't play that stuff either!

KVR/eSoundz: Xenobt

[Tricky-Loops]

Though, I prefer to listen to whole songs and learn simply by listening (and analyzing).

theres a grand in it if you can write me 5 or 6 tracks in a style youve never paid much attention to by friday...

thats the kind of request you might get in a studio if youre doing it for cash

Most producers are specialized in a few genres of music. For example, Dr. Dre won't make a punk rock track, and Will.I.Am wouldn't create a trash metal track. So if someone would come to me and wants to have a certain kind of music which I'm not experienced in (like death metal, punk or hardrock), I would search someone who is experienced in that kind of music or I would pass on the artist to a more experienced producer...

[vurt]

the specoalist might charge them 10 or 20 times more and do pretty much the same thing, just with a little more knowledge of where they are headed.
a grand for studio time, session players and production team is the bottom end usually we had singer songwriters who played so it was mainly a demo cutting studio. we just got odd people in who wanted "beats" as it was the in thing amongst thelate teens.
studio boss gave us the jobs, we didnt really pick and choose.

[Xenobt]

I hear what you're saying, TL, but there are hundreds of commercial composers out there who pride themselves on being able to do fake game show music one day, then pseudo thrash for a BMX bicycle ad the next.

It's being able to do all of these things passably well that gets us the gig. Art directors and agencies like one stop shopping whenever possible, and you being able to pull these things off will get you on the first call list fastest and keep you there.

In one week, I did a ska piece for a Yamaha Waverunner tv spot, a We Will Rock You sound-alike for a US Postal Service meeting, and a pretty piano, flute and strings with rhythm section track for an Owens Corning spot. I played every bit of it and LOVED that week!

But if I had to do an Incredibles/James Bond style piece, I'd be in my brass section and big band drum loops with a quickness!

KVR/eSoundz: Xenobt