FREE: Alexis D-Four ... 90s drum sounds

[chokehold]

Why not just let us have the samples so we can load what we want to load?

Yeah, try that with EastWest or VSL, right?

The main reason why I don't do that is: the samples are the product of my hard work, and my ultimate goal is to create a Kontakt instrument which will allow me to have a "learning by doing" experience and enable me to focus on Kontakt in future releases.

Just letting everybody download them freely now would leave everyone out there with 3000 (really) samples and very likely no idea what to do with them, or losing interest quickly because browsing them would get tiresome soon.

Plus some Kontakt crack would maybe/probably come up with a Kontakt instrument of their own ... which would basically make the whole effort worthless to me.

Sorry to be such a party pooper in this case, but Maize isn't a bad solution for the time being, and if you don't like it or don't want to wait until I have the time to create a Kontakt version, then feel free not to use my instruments. The last thing I want to do is make your life miserable with uneasy solutions.

After all, it's not like I make any money from spending all that time creating them.

Feel free to donate...

[ghettosynth]

Why not just let us have the samples so we can load what we want to load?

Yeah, try that with EastWest or VSL, right?

The main reason why I don't do that is: the samples are the product of my hard work, and my ultimate goal is to create a Kontakt instrument which will allow me to have a "learning by doing" experience and enable me to focus on Kontakt in future releases.

Just letting everybody download them freely now would leave everyone out there with 3000 (really) samples and very likely no idea what to do with them, or losing interest quickly because browsing them would get tiresome soon.

Not to rain on anyone's parade, but, really, the samples are the intellectual property of Alesis, right? I know that when we've discussed this sort of thing in the past the mods have taken a dim view of it. I don't know what Alesis's position on sampling their instruments is, do you? Roland tries to draw a pretty hard line about their recent instruments while korg is a bit more relaxed. Nonetheless, have you looked into or considered this aspect of your project?

[chokehold]

I took part in those discussions for some time.

You are right, the actual sample files on the machine are intellectual property of Alesis.

Yet I did not copy any internally saved sound files from any EEPROMs or Flashs or something, I did not trick or manipulate the machine, I did not avoid or circumvent any analog or digital copy protection means.

All I did was set up a project to record performances of presets on that machine and distribute those recorded performances. The recorded performances were heavily edited after recording, so they are not "in their original form" and not the presets. (editing did not include EQ/Compressor though)

If one may not distribute edited performances recorded from that device - what use is it?

Also, the performances I distribute are merely snapshots, and may seem complex du to the many samples included, but can in no way completely capture the true complexity of the D4's "inner workings" like effect sends and kits and so on.

There are other people out there who make money from distributing sample libraries that are direct recordings of modern/current machine's presets, unedited and unprocessed.

The machine I sampled hasn't been in production or obtainable from Alesis for over a decade, if at all supported by them.

So yes, as you can see I did consider this aspect of my project.

[Aloysius]

If one may not distribute edited performances recorded from that device - what use is it?

I'd imagine it's a bit like purchasing a License to personally use any other sample Pack. You're not really supposed to edit the Pack and distribute it to your friends.

From reading your earlier post, it sounds to me like you're gearing up to not only distribute but to actually sell another persons work.

I don't think it will matter how much work you added to the source material if it's not yours to begin with.

I may have got you all wrong there. Apologies in advance if I did.

[chokehold]

That specific assumption exactly forms the tipping point of the whole "you're ripping off the work of others" argument.

No, I am NOT ripping off other people's work.

I did NOT copy their sound files directly from the source.

I did NOT redistribute the original source material or copies made directly of it.

I did NOT circumvent any copy protection, which includes potential written license terms which could be prohibiting this.

Had I copied EWQL samples out of the sample folders and redistributed them, somehow processed or not, I would be in grave violation of their EULA terms, correct.

Had I triggered and sampled and recorded those EWQL samples like I did with the Alesis, I still wouldn't have been entitled to redistribute my recorded performances as their license prohibits this, correct.

That's why I --or others-- haven't done it.

All of this was not the case with the Alesis D4, there are no license terms prohibiting that I trigger performances --no matter how long or short-- and redistribute those performances, even sell them.

Suggesting anything else should please be confirmed with quotes and links to the respective sources, anything other would just be a plain attempt to harm my "reputation".

Thank you.

[chokehold]

From reading your earlier post, it sounds to me like you're gearing up to not only distribute but to actually sell another persons work.

That is one very heavy accusation.

No, I am not gearing up to sell another person's work, and I am not ever going to sell the samples and instruments you can already download for free.

[tomtoo]

From reading your earlier post, it sounds to me like you're gearing up to not only distribute but to actually sell another persons work.

That is one very heavy accusation.

No, I am not gearing up to sell another person's work, and I am not ever going to sell the samples and instruments you can already download for free.

I realy wonder if it was going about a sonor drum kit, if the same digital age questions would come up ?

Would it be ok to sample the sound of a sonor ?

Iam shure 99.999% would say shure.

[whyterabbyt]

I realy wonder if it was going about a sonor drum kit, if the same digital age questions would come up ?

Would it be ok to sample the sound of a sonor ?

Iam shure 99.999% would say shure.

yes, it would be okay to make your own entirely original samples of an entirely acoustic source.

that's why people would say its okay; there's nothing in law to prevent you making your own, entirely original reocrdings from entirely non-recorded source materials (except, perhaps, in circumstances related to laws pertaining to wiretapping, and privacy)

[tomtoo]

I realy wonder if it was going about a sonor drum kit, if the same digital age questions would come up ?

Would it be ok to sample the sound of a sonor ?

Iam shure 99.999% would say shure.

yes, it would be okay to make your own entirely original samples of an entirely acoustic source.

that's why people would say its okay; there's nothing in law to prevent you making your own, entirely original reocrdings from entirely non-recorded source materials (except, perhaps, in circumstances related to laws pertaining to wiretapping, and privacy)

And if i would do some drum samples from a Beatles or Stones vinyl ?

[Tricky-Loops]

I realy wonder if it was going about a sonor drum kit, if the same digital age questions would come up ?

Would it be ok to sample the sound of a sonor ?

Iam shure 99.999% would say shure.

yes, it would be okay to make your own entirely original samples of an entirely acoustic source.

that's why people would say its okay; there's nothing in law to prevent you making your own, entirely original reocrdings from entirely non-recorded source materials (except, perhaps, in circumstances related to laws pertaining to wiretapping, and privacy)

And if i would do some drum samples from a Beatles vinyl?

I wouldn't do. I would be afraid of Phil Spector and his guns of sound...

[whyterabbyt]

I realy wonder if it was going about a sonor drum kit, if the same digital age questions would come up ?

Would it be ok to sample the sound of a sonor ?

Iam shure 99.999% would say shure.

yes, it would be okay to make your own entirely original samples of an entirely acoustic source.

that's why people would say its okay; there's nothing in law to prevent you making your own, entirely original reocrdings from entirely non-recorded source materials (except, perhaps, in circumstances related to laws pertaining to wiretapping, and privacy)

And if i would do some drum samples from a Beatles or Stones vinyl ?

you mean an existing recording? well, gee, that wouldnt be an entirely original recording from entirely non-recorded source materials then, would it?

[tomtoo]

I realy wonder if it was going about a sonor drum kit, if the same digital age questions would come up ?

Would it be ok to sample the sound of a sonor ?

Iam shure 99.999% would say shure.

yes, it would be okay to make your own entirely original samples of an entirely acoustic source.

that's why people would say its okay; there's nothing in law to prevent you making your own, entirely original reocrdings from entirely non-recorded source materials (except, perhaps, in circumstances related to laws pertaining to wiretapping, and privacy)

And if i would do some drum samples from a Beatles or Stones vinyl ?

you mean an existing recording? well, gee, that wouldnt be an entirely original recording from entirely non-recorded source materials then, would it?

Absolutly right. If i would do samples from a alesis d6 or a simmons ?

So why should natural drumsets get not the same respect ?

[whyterabbyt]

Absolutly right. If i would do samples from a alesis d6 or a simmons ?

So why should natural drumsets get not the same respect ?

wtf are you on about?

an acoustic drum kit does not get the 'same respect' because it isnt the same kind of thing as the things which do get 'respect', ie the relevant copyright laws are entirely about redistributing copies of recordings and a drum isnt a recording.

just the same as growing your own food doesnt get the 'same respect' as the 'respect' a prepackaged meal from your supermarket gets under shoplifting laws. they just dont apply. end of story.

'hey why doesnt my car get the 'same respect' as my house if I want to build an extension on it'

[tomtoo]

Absolutly right. If i would do samples from a alesis d6 or a simmons ?

So why should natural drumsets get not the same respect ?

.....

an acoustic drum kit does not get the 'same respect' because it isnt the same kind of thing as the things which do get 'respect', ie the relevant copyright laws are entirely about recordings and a drum isnt a recording.

.....

Strange loop alarm.

You legitimes a law with "couse its a law". Is it not a lot of work to craft a natural drumset ?

If i would be a drumset=(x) (put in any natural soundsource in here) maker i would be very upset with this law and would try to change it.

[chokehold]

Well, I live in Germany, and German law has the following to say about "copying the works of others":
http://dejure.org/gesetze/UrhG/24.html

§ 24
Freie Benutzung
(1) Ein selbständiges Werk, das in freier Benutzung des Werkes eines anderen geschaffen worden ist, darf ohne Zustimmung des Urhebers des benutzten Werkes veröffentlicht und verwertet werden.
(2) Absatz 1 gilt nicht für die Benutzung eines Werkes der Musik, durch welche eine Melodie erkennbar dem Werk entnommen und einem neuen Werk zugrunde gelegt wird.

Which quickly translated into English means:

§24
Free use
(1) An independent piece of work that has been created in the free use of another's work may be published and used without the consent of the author of the work used.
(2) Paragraph 1 shall not apply to the use of a work of music, where a recognizable melody is taken from that work and used as a base for a new work of music.

Nuff said.

I'm not copying source material, I'm not circumventing any (!) form of copy protection and I'm not distributing anyone's works of music recognizable by their melody.

If you start arguing about "one sound can be a melody", I'll gladly invest the time to dig up that legal blurb where it is stated how many notes are legally required to form a melody. But you all know how Google works.