KVR Audio

Funkybot's Evil Twin · Sun Nov 24, 2013 10:54 pm

BBFG# wrote:Fair question.
Been playing 48 years now, (electrics/electronics for 43 years)...

Good to know, so you're probably on the other end of the spectrum, where you probably have the skills to know exactly where a library falls apart. Just out of curiosity, are there any libraries you like for sound and/or playability?

BBFG# · Post by **BBFG#** » Mon Nov 25, 2013 12:02 am

Funkybot's Evil Twin wrote:
BBFG# wrote:Fair question.
Been playing 48 years now, (electrics/electronics for 43 years)...
Good to know, so you're probably on the other end of the spectrum, where you probably have the skills to know exactly where a library falls apart. Just out of curiosity, are there any libraries you like for sound and/or playability?

Seriously, I only know where they fall apart for me.

If I take these for samples of what a piano basically is, a percussion instrument, then I love the sound of every one of them and the playability they offer in their sweet spot like any other drum or melodic pit instrument. I use my HW romplers/synth modelers (Korg/Yamaha) as my 'favorites' of playability for now, but I'm still searching.

I do like the demos of the 'Blue Piano' though and think I might be giving it try soon.

backsliders · Post by **backsliders** » Mon Nov 25, 2013 4:45 am

I'm not saying the piano needs to be mono, but at least a little less... well, I've never had to use one so I don't know if this is the case, but if all electric bass libraries were an unnaturally wide stereo spread with no option to reduce, I may be inclined to have a bit of a problem.

It sounds like these companies love LCR panning for sample libraries. As wide as it can be or mono. Rarely mono, and no in between. People seem to have this obsession with stereo widening. You can get a wide mix without using all stereo sounds, and I rarely like my pianos and basses wider than the drums.

Fun fact: the grand piano used in Hey Jude is the same one used for Bohemian Rhapsody.

Gonga · Post by **Gonga** » Mon Nov 25, 2013 4:54 am

I have a lot of decent mono pianos in my Alesis QS8 synth. I 'spose you might be able to find at least one you like in a rack-mount synth somewhere...maybe a Korg, Roland or Yamaha.

Funkybot's Evil Twin · Mon Nov 25, 2013 4:44 pm

backsliders wrote:I'm not saying the piano needs to be mono, but at least a little less... well, I've never had to use one so I don't know if this is the case, but if all electric bass libraries were an unnaturally wide stereo spread with no option to reduce, I may be inclined to have a bit of a problem.

It sounds like these companies love LCR panning for sample libraries. As wide as it can be or mono. Rarely mono, and no in between. People seem to have this obsession with stereo widening. You can get a wide mix without using all stereo sounds, and I rarely like my pianos and basses wider than the drums.

Fun fact: the grand piano used in Hey Jude is the same one used for Bohemian Rhapsody.

This is where I like Ivory's approach, and where I didn't get the comment from someone earlier in the thread about Ivory sounding bad in mono; Ivory has a Stereo Width knob. At 0 it narrows the stereo field to mono, and sounds fine IMO. Though, I will admit, it does sound funny if you just flip it to mono in your DAW. I'm wondering if their width control is just a volume for the side channel, in an M/S configuration.

Again, Addictive Keys approach is cool here too because there's mono mic configurations built right in.

Arglebargle · Post by **Arglebargle** » Mon Nov 25, 2013 5:12 pm

Yeah I wish piano sample companies would include a mono mic position, a single mic they took time placing to get the best possible sound. Because probably, the ideal position for a single mic is not either of the stereo mic locations. So even if you take the left or right channel you're not getting an optimal sound.

BBFG# · Post by **BBFG#** » Fri Nov 29, 2013 8:03 pm

Cimbasso wrote:I only use Piano in Blue nowadays. Stunning playability and character.

The mp3 examples are very nice and for this BFri sale it's worth the try. Jumping on it.

Thanks for making me aware of it.

Vectorman · Post by **Vectorman** » Mon Dec 02, 2013 3:50 am

As a quick P.S. to my earlier comments about the Ivory American Concert D, I should mention that I'm actually liking it quite a bit now, after honing in on the frequency ranges that needed to be controlled to make it sound more transparent and mix-ready. Interestingly, a fair amount of what I needed to pull down seemed to reside around 1KHz. I also had to use multiband compression on the 2KHz area to tame the upper register - the compressor is clamping down on that band as much as -8dB when I play up in that range, so it's pretty peaky up there. With that sorted, it sounds really good. Using it in a song or two and seeing how the mixes come across on a few sound systems will be the real test, of course, but I think it's going to work out well.

BBFG# · Post by **BBFG#** » Tue Dec 03, 2013 3:23 am

Just an update on my search... Cinesamples zip wouldn't extract and the rar doesn't show any piano patch/programs.

Pianoteq, on the other hand, installed fine and there are some things in tone and velocity I like, except for the decay. I'll have to play with it more and see If I can get that to my liking. Right now, it kills anything I do like in it.

bill45 · Post by **bill45** » Tue Dec 03, 2013 5:43 am

Pianoteq has a mono mode. I need to upgrade to Pianoteq 4

dj.andy.warhol · Post by **dj.andy.warhol** » Tue Dec 03, 2013 2:51 pm

I found a couple of libraries that suit my needs but most of those I find are fre beyond quality I would like.

K-Bee · Post by **K-Bee** » Thu Dec 05, 2013 4:14 pm

From the pianos I've tried, the main problem for me seems to be the mid range notes/frequencies. They either sound thinny or wrongly EQ'ed. Lower/higher range are often near to perfection but the octaves you're bound to use the most are lackluster. I have a Kurzweil famous for their triple strike pianos. Honestly it doesn't impress me much either (the rest of the machine does though). I tried V-Piano, Nord Stage, Pianoteq demos, various sample libraries, freebies, you name it throughout the years - they just don't cut it for me.
I've ended op not using much piano in my music whatsoever because of this. I hate that but it just isn't sufficient. I know many will disagree of course but beauty is in the eye of the beholder, so to speak.
It's a bit like brass emulations/sample libraries. They just ain't good - maybe some stuff isn't meant to be emulated at all

CableChannel · Post by **CableChannel** » Thu Dec 05, 2013 4:22 pm

For the sake of the little reality edge that is missing in Pianoteq I am looking at sampled pianos right now. Sampletekk is having a sale and they have quite some range of pianos. Something for everyone's taste I would say.

BBFG# · Post by **BBFG#** » Thu Dec 05, 2013 6:28 pm

Finally got Piano in Blue to load properly, Velocity is smooth but seems to have abrupt drops and rises at the extremes of the Piano/Forte. Pianoteq has some nice things about it, but I still haven't found a way to pull down the sustain (as in ADSR sustain) and that makes it annoying in certain styles.
I'm also finding those mid-range EQ problems mention elsewhere.

At this point, I really wouldn't recommend them as anything but more specialized effects and not enough to be an instrument on its own.

EvilDragon · Post by **EvilDragon** » Thu Dec 05, 2013 6:36 pm

BBFG# wrote:Pianoteq has some nice things about it, but I still haven't found a way to pull down the sustain (as in ADSR sustain) and that makes it annoying in certain styles.

Bringing down Impendance shortens the decay time. In conjunction with Cutoff and Q factor which govern the decay of high frequency partials, you can make the sound shorter. Also increasing Direct sound duration makes the notes shorter.

You can also try using the timbral EQ Pianoteq offers - it's not a traditional EQ, so it works a bit differently. Try it.

Piano libraries are too fake (opinion)