10,000 wax cylinders digititzed and free to download

[musical android]

Okay so I got a reply from the project director David Seubert,
where he explains where they stand on the issue.
I understand their situation and agree with what he is saying especially as they are ready to waive the fee for artists with limited means.

Here is his response:

There are no public domain sound recordings in the United States, including these cylinder recordings. Recordings before 1972 are protected by state law but not federal copyright, which didn't cover sound recordings until March, 1972. We've digitized them for non-commercial private use and study. We have no issues with commercial use, but we encourage commercial users to a) do their own due diligence on their copyright status, and b) pay our use fees (which is a fee for access to our high resolution wav files, and is not a royalty). This collection is not a royalty free sound library and I can't turn it into one as that's not how these recordings were created. These are mostly commercial entertainment cylinders, just like any pop record made today (which you also can’t sample for free). Until “pre-1972 recordings” (as they are known) enter the public domain in 2067, they won't be. Blame Congress, not us. As to our fee structure, we can't raise our fees if somebody with deep pockets (HBO) wants access to the materials but we will negotiate down or waive them the use fees for artists of limited means.

We do claim a new, derivative work copyright on the restored version which is online. There is disagreement on this issue and we respect and follow that debate.

Our operation is very small, with two permanent staff, and we also operate the entire performing arts archive here at UCSB, including a massive archive of 78rpm discs and print and paper collections. I have a graduate student copying cylinders in the lab as we speak so the public can hear them, and his salary is funded by donations to the project. I’d love to give everything away, but until I have enough permanent funding to run the operation I also need a revenue source. That isn't likely in today's arts/higher education environment, sad to say.

[Numanoid]

Our operation is very small, with two permanent staff, and we also operate the entire performing arts archive here at UCSB, including a massive archive of 78rpm discs and print and paper collections. I have a graduate student copying cylinders in the lab as we speak so the public can hear them, and his salary is funded by donations to the project. I’d love to give everything away, but until I have enough permanent funding to run the operation I also need a revenue source.

Okay, then I understand the financing: A real labour of love

Seubert should be showcased in KVR Industry Focus, for taking on such an important initiative

[Shabdahbriah]

Our operation is very small, with two permanent staff, and we also operate the entire performing arts archive here at UCSB, including a massive archive of 78rpm discs and print and paper collections. I have a graduate student copying cylinders in the lab as we speak so the public can hear them, and his salary is funded by donations to the project. I’d love to give everything away, but until I have enough permanent funding to run the operation I also need a revenue source.

Okay, then I understand the financing: A real labour of love

Seubert should be showcased in KVR Industry Focus, for taking on such an important initiative

Excellent response. Thanks for asking, and posting this, musical android.

[jancivil]

The University of California at Santa Barbara library has undertaken an heroic digitization effort for its world-class archive of 19th and early 20th century wax cylinder recordings, and has placed over 10,000 songs online for anyone to download, stream and re-use.

Wow, how did they get the financing to do that. I thought California was more or less bankrupt when it comes to public funds?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universit ... a_finances

[spirit]

I'm impressed the Uni replied. Good to them for that at least and thanks for posting the answer musical_android. For all their nice words though the legality of it is that if you use anything from their MP3 archive you're in breach of their copyright. Like many things in the world perhaps the real question is how likely you are to be pursued for this legal breach?

[Jace-BeOS]

I was unaware that 2067 was the new end date for copyright of even "should be public domain now" works. I imagine that, if the USA survives till 2067, the recording industry and Disney will have lobbied to further extend copyright to "300 years past the death of the original artist" or "perpetual for corporate persons".

[CrystalWizard]

Thanks M A for getting those details. Situation is not too unworkable i think. Regardless, i'm still happy to be able to hear it.

[ghettosynth]

Thanks M A for getting those details. Situation is not too unworkable i think. Regardless, i'm still happy to be able to hear it.

Agreed, more than that though, I think that this is a very interesting copyright situation. Since the original recordings are copyrighted, and the university does not have a "license" for many/all of these recordings, they themselves are potentially engaging in copyright infringement. While they may argue that research can be fair use, I don't think that they are on solid ground to claim that providing them to the public in a commercial enterprise, no matter how limited, even to maintain a research facility, is also fair use.

What if the thread started out with a story like the following. I have a dusty old JD-800 with some samples that I have copied to my computer and I will make them available on a website in MP3 format. If you want the .wav files, I can give you copies of those, for a small "copying fee", but that's not a royalty, it's just a service fee.

Now, it's up to you, the user, to make sure that you're not violating any copyrights by using these files.

What was the assertion "if you're going to sample, get a license." That is the bright line rule that we must live under. It doesn't matter why the university is copying the files, the redistribution of them without a license is most likely also copyright infringement.

I have a zerog sampling library that's pretty much the same thing. They know damn well that it was on shaky ground when they sold it back in the early nineties, and they try to distance themselves from it today. There's a great discussion of the datafile series over at gearslutz.

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/electro ... afile.html

I love this quote from that conversation

Roland also sampled the Amen Break and other stuff to include in their gear from the '90. I have a JS-30 sampler & the default library is full of vinyl cuts from James Brown among other artists. The MC series has amen break chops including that famous snare... the list goes on..

In other words, do as we say, not as we do.

[V0RT3X]

Next thing you know, Kvr people will want a plugin that accurately simulates running your audio into a wax cylinder.

[Glitch Doctor]

unless there was another copyright law change... the university is wrong... or extremely paranoid.
Apparently the copyright still is death of author + 70 years, most will expire soon (some already should have. In which case the university gets a new copyright for the digitization of the cylinders).

Edit: Goddamit state law...

[deastman]

I'm not entirely sure about the claim that there are no public domain sound recordings because they weren't registered. I was under the impression that any works, including sound recordings, published before 1923 were now in the public domain. See here...

http://fairuse.stanford.edu/overview/pu ... n/welcome/

[Frantz]

Here is an expert handling one of these incredibly rare wax cylinders:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pnsizkVjGm8