Single Cycle waveforms

[sl23]

Technically what is a single cycle? Is it a single positive and negative value of a wave as it goes up then down and back to zero? Sometimes a single cycle can be very long, so I've seen, yet seemingly random. How do you combat this massive pitch increase when using gthese longer cycled waveforms?

[pljones]

Technically what is a single cycle? Is it a single positive and negative value of a wave as it goes up then down and back to zero? Sometimes a single cycle can be very long, so I've seen, yet seemingly random. How do you combat this massive pitch increase when using gthese longer cycled waveforms?

You mention that using longer samples increase frequency, but my experience seems the opposite?

He said more actual cycles in the waveform. The frequency of 20Hz - 20 assumed cycles per second - remained. So if you have 2 actual cycles in a waveform that is assumed to contain 1 cycle and you play it 20 times in a second, you'll get 40Hz not 20Hz. However, if you have a waveform that only gets played 5 times in a second because it's actually longer, then the frequency does not follow the function given.

If you try to fit more samples into a shorter space than their sample rate, you get a higher pitch. To compensate, you tell the sampler that it's a higher pitch.

[sl23]

Yeah thanks pljones I figured that bit out. I'm just stuck on how to get longer samples emulated and pitched correctly. I'll try later today if I get time.

[dakkra]

So a true single cycle waveform plays back at the frequency assigned to the note event it processes at the moment. Pitch differences can happen when you don't use a true single cycle waveform. For example, If you put 1.5 Saw waves into a single cycle slot, the perceived frequency will be off as it plays 1.5 cycles at frequency F instead of 1 cycle.

As you adjust the tuning of the slave oscillator between more than one and less than two cycles per master oscillator cycle, the pitch does not change, but the timbre does. At exactly two cycles in the slave, the pitch produced by the slave oscillator goes up one octave. But in between one and two, the pitch remains that of the master. It does sound a good deal "edgier" however, which is what the oscillator sync feature is all about.

Extending the length of any single-cycle waveform, repeating a portion of the initial full cycle to create a new waveform results in a new and different single-cycle waveform. Single cycle waveforms always are heard at the pitch of the oscillator playing them (unless they contain multiple, repeated single cycles, of course, in which case it's not really a single-cycle waveform in the first place).

You are indeed correct, thus my edit regarding how this is more commonly called "hard-sync"

Dakra

[dmbaer]

Technically what is a single cycle? Is it a single positive and negative value of a wave as it goes up then down and back to zero? Sometimes a single cycle can be very long, so I've seen, yet seemingly random. How do you combat this massive pitch increase when using gthese longer cycled waveforms?

Some of the confusion here may be due to mixing ideas about sample playback with those of single-cycle playback. They are quite different and are bound by different rules. A single cycle wave is typically anything from a few hundred samples to two or three thousand max. The frequency at which they are played back (that is, how many times the full sequence is played per time unit) dictates what the pitch will be. The exception is the unusual case where multiple more-or-less-identical patterns exist within that set of samples, in which case we get pitch higher by N octaves, where N is the number of repititions.

Edit (4/18): I should have not said "octaves" but rather "harmonics". So pattern appears twice, pitch 12 semitones higher; three times, pitch about 19 semitones higher; etc.

There is by no means a requirement that there be exactly two zero-crossing points in a single cycle. You could extract a random sequence of sample points (of appropriate size) from a recording of a person speaking or of water running. Put that into a synth with the requisite playback capabilities and you will hear a pitched sound that responds appropriately to key position.

[sl23]

Thanks for the info, I'll keep that in mind for future reference

[theorize]

Man the OP has GOT to be confused as shit now. Just throwing a cycle and a half into a sampler is not going to make hardsync. It's only related in a theoretical way, what about when the pitch changes on the master oscillator, all of a sudden the slave is going to reset at a different spot in the cycle. Wouldn't it be best to explain how single cycles work and get him understanding that first?