Ability to do single cycle multi sampling

[phreaque]

Hi folks.
Looking for a tool allows me to sample exactly a single cycle of a waveform for a given range of notes.
Most of auto samplers using a fixed time for each sample so in this case I can't get single cycles.
Do you know any approach?
Thanks

[nineofkings]

You can do this semi-manually in shortcircuit, which can snap to zero crossings.

[phreaque]

You can do this semi-manually in shortcircuit, which can snap to zero crossings.

And shortcircuit still freeware I think?

[nineofkings]

Yes http://vemberaudio.se/shortcircuit.php

[phreaque]

Yes http://vemberaudio.se/shortcircuit.php

Thanks mate
Although I have trouble in finding accurate zero crossing for waveforms like square.

[thecontrolcentre]

I would use a wav editor.

[phreaque]

I would use a wav editor.

I did of course, started with sound forge, it does nice job to zero cross the cycle. But thought to have an auto tool to capture single cycle waveforms directly.
Something like Extreme Sample Converter, but dealing in single cycle.

[thecontrolcentre]

I would use a wav editor.

I did of course, started with sound forge, it does nice job to zero cross the cycle. But thought to have an auto tool to capture single cycle waveforms directly.
Something like Extreme Sample Converter, but dealing in single cycle.

I see ... maybe Sample Robot can do that? Haven't tried it myself, but heard it can be a time-saver.

[phreaque]

I would use a wav editor.

I did of course, started with sound forge, it does nice job to zero cross the cycle. But thought to have an auto tool to capture single cycle waveforms directly.
Something like Extreme Sample Converter, but dealing in single cycle.

I see ... maybe Sample Robot can do that? Haven't tried it myself, but heard it can be a time-saver.

Indeed, Extreme Sample Converter offers such sampling robot. Sadly its waveform editor doesn't go in details.

[fmr]

I would use a wav editor.

I did of course, started with sound forge, it does nice job to zero cross the cycle. But thought to have an auto tool to capture single cycle waveforms directly.
Something like Extreme Sample Converter, but dealing in single cycle.

I see ... maybe Sample Robot can do that? Haven't tried it myself, but heard it can be a time-saver.

Indeed, Extreme Sample Converter offers such sampling robot. Sadly its waveform editor doesn't go in details.

I don't know what you are trying to achieve, but if you are trying to create a library of single cycle waveforms to use in a sampler, sampling single cycle isn't enough. They have to be of a certain duration, depending on the sample rate chosen, in order to work properly. For example, the files have to contain 256 samples at a sample rate of 44.1 kHz, and the loop is from start to end.

The easiest way I found was to create wavetables in Audio-Term by analyzing wave files, and then extract single waves out of the wavetables. The files saved by Audio-Term are already perfect single-cycle waves.

[phreaque]

I would use a wav editor.

I did of course, started with sound forge, it does nice job to zero cross the cycle. But thought to have an auto tool to capture single cycle waveforms directly.
Something like Extreme Sample Converter, but dealing in single cycle.

I see ... maybe Sample Robot can do that? Haven't tried it myself, but heard it can be a time-saver.

Indeed, Extreme Sample Converter offers such sampling robot. Sadly its waveform editor doesn't go in details.

I don't know what you are trying to achieve, but ig you are trying to create a library of single cycle waveforms to use in a sampler, sampling single cycle isn't enough. They have to be of a certain duration, depending on the sample rate chosen, in order to work properly. For example, the files have to contain 256 samples at a sample rate of 44.1 kHz, and the loop is from start to end.

The easiest way I found was to crate wavetables in Audio-Term by analysing wave files, and then extract single waves out of the wavetables. The files saved by Audio-Term are already perfect single-cycle waves.

I'm making a custom sound bank for some Yamaha keyboards including montage, thought to get the basic VA waveforms in those machines as they don't have them in the rom.

'm using Sylenth1 since it has very detailed basic waveforms. You know it's not good at all to use a single wave sample spread all over the keyboard range due to aliasing & dullness.

So what I want to achieve is to create multi-sample sfz of at least 30 notes, each sample is preferably to be a single cycle, why?
Because if stacking 2 oscillators (multisamples) and each note has different loop length, it will give time difference in playing back and sometimes clicking.
Loop length in such case should be the same all over the multisample notes.

[fmr]

I'm making a custom sound bank for some Yamaha keyboards including montage, thought to get the basic VA waveforms in those machines as they don't have them in the rom.

'm using Sylenth1 since it has very detailed basic waveforms. You know it's not good at all to use a single wave sample spread all over the keyboard range due to aliasing & dullness.

So what I want to achieve is to create multi-sample sfz of at least 30 notes, each sample is preferably to be a single cycle, why?
Because if stacking 2 oscillators (multisamples) and each note has different loop length, it will give time difference in playing back and sometimes clicking.
Loop length in such case should be the same all over the multisample notes.

Doesn't those keyboards have anti-aliasing filters? If they do, then using a single-cycle waveform spreaded all over the keyboard will give good results, IMO (better than using several spreaded in a keymap, because these may have inconsistencies related to each other). Actually, having a single-cycle will mean that the sampler engine will read it pretty much the same way an oscillator works (speeding it for each transposing step). Since the Anti-aliasing filter will prevent aliasing, I don't see any problem. And you will avoid the problem of stacking 2 oscillators too, because if you detune them the cycles will detune pretty much the same way as oscillators do. Just IMO, of course. But nothing better than testing this to check.

Anyway, when you have the basic single-cycle wave file, you can transpose it to any frequency you want in any sample editor.

[phreaque]

I'm making a custom sound bank for some Yamaha keyboards including montage, thought to get the basic VA waveforms in those machines as they don't have them in the rom.

'm using Sylenth1 since it has very detailed basic waveforms. You know it's not good at all to use a single wave sample spread all over the keyboard range due to aliasing & dullness.

So what I want to achieve is to create multi-sample sfz of at least 30 notes, each sample is preferably to be a single cycle, why?
Because if stacking 2 oscillators (multisamples) and each note has different loop length, it will give time difference in playing back and sometimes clicking.
Loop length in such case should be the same all over the multisample notes.

Doesn't those keyboards have anti-aliasing filters? If they do, then using a single-cycle waveform spreaded all over the keyboard will give good results, IMO (better than using several spreaded in a keymap, because these may have inconsistencies related to each other). Actually, having a single-cycle will mean that the sampler engine will read it pretty much the same way an oscillator works (speeding it for each transposing step). Since the Anti-aliasing filter will prevent aliasing, I don't see any problem. And you will avoid the problem of stacking 2 oscillators too, because if you detune them the cycles will detune pretty much the same way as oscillators do. Just IMO, of course. But nothing better than testing this to check.

Anyway, when you have the basic single-cycle wave file, you can transpose it to any frequency you want in any sample editor.

Thanks buddy for the input.
Yamaha keyboards don't have anti-aliasing filters, although there's a trick with applying an LPF to each (element) oscillator, but that will effect on the sonic content.
Korg keyboards can handle such case, as well as there's a real good cross-fading feature for the sample loop.

Using a single sample all over the keyboard range doesn't go well. Try to use a sampled sawtooth wave of C3, pitch down to C1 and it will sound so dull.

[fmr]

Using a single sample all over the keyboard range doesn't go well. Try to use a sampled sawtooth wave of C3, pitch down to C1 and it will sound so dull.

I just tried it with TAL Sampler, and it doesn't sound dull at all. Actually, I got pretty much the results I was expecting, as per my previous post. If you have any software sampler, like Kontakt for example, you can test that yourself.

Of course, the waves can sound harsh at the top end, especially if the base note is set too low (I usually place it at the octave 3 or 2). Again, you can't use ANY single cycle - it has to conform to the norm of 256 samples. This isn't the case of using a single sample - it's a special kind of single sample, a single cycle wave. Do it properly, ty it, and then tell me if you still think it sounds dull on the low end.

And of course I was expecting you to use a LPF on the instruments. After all, you are basically using the waves as raw material for a kind of subtractive synthesizer.

[phreaque]

Of course, the waves can sound harsh at the top end, especially if the base note is set too low (I usually place it at F3 or F2). Again, you can't use ANY single cycle - it has to conform to the norm of 256 samples. And of course I was expecting you to use a LPF on the isntruments. After all, you are basically using the waves as raw material for a kind of subtractive synthesizer.

hmm, unless TAL sampler has some magic, I tried to use DirectWave to load a C3 sawtooth. +/-1 octave sounds uh okay.
But yeah thinking about using those waves in subtractive domain, no worries I assume
Thanks buddy