Hit sounds, QUALITY not quantity

[TinderBox]

Finally found some time to get back to producing music...
I have a lot of sample libraries but not even enough time to go hunting through them working with sounds to get something great.
I am looking for one or two stunning synths and bass sounds, and perhaps some drums in the Pop, Dance music genre.
As a startgin point for this discusssion, for example; Mr. Saxobeat, Seals Crazy.
What is the root of those sounds and what production was added to them?
Has anyone figured this out and recreated these sounds? Willing to share?

[Zexila]

Spire would do you good for these kind of sounds or even Avenger, as far as drums go, you can't go wrong with Vengeance samples.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWyFXqkaL_Y
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DCoZlCELujo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F5oDK1v5edI

[TinderBox]

Thanks those are all good.
Does anyone know the actual sounds used in seals Crazy and Mr Saxobeat, Particularly after the orchestral stab in Crazy at the beggining?

[DSmolken]

Pop these days uses pretty significant amounts of samples or "real" instruments, so you might have to invest in some sample-based strings, horns and guitars, also. Strings for pop should be recorded in a studio with close mics, and use small sections. Pop horns are completely different than classical horns, too. If I had to do one string library, I'd wait for Soundiron to release their Hyperion strings - the Micro's supposed to be out very soon. For horns, Impact's Straight Ahead Jazz Horns. Guitar, I dunno, maybe some Orange Tree stuff.

For a synth, Avenger is a good modern choice, you could also take a look at U-He Diva, and good old Omnisphere.

For drums, That Sound do contemporary pop drum libraries which sound very good and mix-ready even though they don't contain a ton of samples, so sounding like a real human drummer is not really what they're best at. Add to that the free Wave Alchemy drum machine samples, and you should have everything you need, though if you want to get more retro, you might want to add some of the vintage-style Drumdrops kits which replicate 60s-70s drum setups and recording techniques. Vengeance samples are still the best for that sort of 2010-2015 house-influenced pop sound like "Mr. Saxobeat".

[BertKoor]

Particularly after the orchestral stab in Crazy at the beggining?

You won't find that sample in a library. It was the hard work of Trevor Horn (the producer) and his team.
https://www.theguardian.com/media/media ... o-star-ztt

When we made the first Seal album, we spent two months doing Crazy – and then about two months on the whole album. Crazy wasn't an easy record to make, because we were aiming high.

If you're just starting, it doesn't make sense to aim this high. Better wade through all the stuff you already collected, pick out something you think has some potential and make the best of it. That's how these examples you gave came into being in the first place!

So alas, there's no silver bullet, you have to do the work

[DSmolken]

"Crazy" is, indeed, pretty elaborate, with a lot of different elements interlocking, appearing and disappearing. Isn't that orchestra hit only used once in the entire song? But, in a way, all that stuff makes it very similar to a lot of contemporary tracks - that kind of thing is much more common today than it was in the early 90s. But trying to produce something like that is, indeed, going to be very labor-intensive.

Here's what I'd consider the two best-produced pop tracks of 2017.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U66ixhdbxEI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qm4pP_gy2cU

[TinderBox]

Nice tracks. Not exactly where I am going, but I agree the production is superb. What sounds are they using?
Crazy was perhaps not a good example because there is so much in it. Mr. Saxobeat bass and synth sounds might be a better place to start.
"that's how these examples you gave came into being in the first place!" granted. This thread is about achieving those sounds. even if you only know about the technique for one great sound, that is what i am asking for. Not tons of mediocre sounds. Tell me how one great bass is made for example.

[BertKoor]

Sounds in itself are worthless. It is totally the artist that makes it or breaks it. My junk might be your goldmine and vice versa.

For example here's a nice orchestral hit sound ready to be used: Donna Summer - Last Dance. Sample the last second, there's a really nice orch.hit sound!

[Burillo]

My junk might be your goldmine

[DSmolken]

Sure, I can see what you're getting at. A lot of sounds are mediocre, or good but good for some other styles, or so good everybody's tired of having heard them too many times. Looking for something like the right snare can take a long, long time.

A good bass will often be more than one layer, unless you're going for a "bass guitar played by a bass guitarist playing a realistic bass guitar part" sound. The low end might just be a sine wave sub, or otherwise something quite simple, but the mids and high frequencies will often have a few layers, detuned and spread in stereo. These days these layers will also be a fairly simple subtractive synth sound with detune and spread. KSHMR posted some good advice about making layered basses a few years ago. Avenger will do those sounds easily, as will Serum. Diva will also, though the gratification might be a bit less instant. If I had to pick one of those, I'd pick whichever seemed most likely to be getting significant updates and new soundware 2-3 years from now.

I can tell you exactly how I made one bass, too. Great or not, at least I remember what I did. The last time I produced a track for a singer, I used my free War Tuba in the Tubaborg mode, which basically uses looped bits of sustained tuba notes like oscillators in a subtractive synth, and made a typical subtractive synth pluck there, with a few detuned layers spread in stereo. I used a stereo control plugin to make it mono below 250 Hz or so, and slowed down the envelope attack during the last part while increasing the envelope sustain, so it turned from a pluck into more of a long drone. And I think I might have done some automation to the decay time during the hook as well, so that shorter notes decayed more quickly, as this was a funk-style bassline with a lot of variation in note length. And of course I did the standard sidechain compression, to get the bass notes out of the kick's way.

There are three important things there. One, it's really a pretty standard bass - pluck volume and filter envelopes, simple low end, mids that have a little more complexity going. Two, using looped bits of tuba makes it a bit more organic than something like Serum, and I did that because those kinds of sounds are pretty popular these days, and fit the singer's tastes and her ideas for the track. And three, I didn't just make a sound and use it - I adjusted some of the parameters during the track, to make it right for the particular note at the particular time.

[TinderBox]

Thanks for that post. Can you post a snippet of this bass pls.

[DSmolken]

Sure - there's no bass during the verses, so it comes in at around 0:42.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7dYx_-orw5Y

Other sample-based instruments used in that track: Drumdrops Modern Folk Rock kit, Ample ukulele, and a lo-fi snare from a free library of drums sampled with a Shure Green Bullet harmonica mic. Also Karoryfer String Cyborgs, Weresax, a guitar (don't remember if it was Shinyguitar or Emilyguitar), and one of the free Full Bucket string machines. And harmony vocals done using Zplane Vielklang, which should almost count as an instrument, and the "aaaa" vowels are Marie Ork.