I don't have any experience syncing devices and using a word clock. I am curious about two scenarios using the ADAT out of my Receptor 2 PRO.
Expanding the Receptor's outputs with a Behringer ADA8000 or ADA8200. ADAT out of Receptor to ADAT in of Behringer unit with an optical cable. Do I need to use the Receptor as clock source, and connect the SPIDF out of Receptor to the BNC WC in of the Behringer? Using a cable that's SPIDF RCA on one end, BNC on the other? Or is just the ADAT connection stable and sufficient?
Another is recording the ADAT output of the Receptor into the ADAT input of the Apogee Quartet, which can only be the master word clock device and has just a BNC connection output. ADAT out of Receptor to ADAT in of Quartet with an optical cable, then BNC out of Quartet to SPIDF in of Receptor, and set Receptor as slave?
Using Receptor's ADAT outputs
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 44 posts since 12 Dec, 2010
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- KVRist
- 99 posts since 12 Oct, 2010
Answer to the first question only....
To use the ADA8000 all you need is a single optical cable from the Receptor to the Behringer ADAT in, and set the Receptor to be the clock source. ADAT-only connection has always been stable and sufficient for me.
One tip...depending on the exact version of the ADA8000, you might find it has an unhelpful noise gate, which causes newly-played sounds to take a noticeable fraction of a second to fade in as the gate opens. I believe the earlier ADA8000s didn't have this, but the newer ones do (including mine). The way I got round it was for all my Receptor multis to have a simple white noise generator VST (eg MDA test tone) in slot 16, set incredibly low (basically as low as I can get it above zero), and send it to all ADAT outputs. You can't notice the noise at all, even loud through headphones, but it's sufficient to keep the noise gate open. If you're lucky you'll have one of the ADA8000 machines without this unhelpful "feature".
You might also notice that if you change multi while there's still a reverb tail sounding through ADAT channels, the Receptor generates a loud and unpleasant buzzing sound while the new multi is loading. Only happens on the ADAT outputs. I've nagged Muse about this for a while now, but to no avail....
Neil
To use the ADA8000 all you need is a single optical cable from the Receptor to the Behringer ADAT in, and set the Receptor to be the clock source. ADAT-only connection has always been stable and sufficient for me.
One tip...depending on the exact version of the ADA8000, you might find it has an unhelpful noise gate, which causes newly-played sounds to take a noticeable fraction of a second to fade in as the gate opens. I believe the earlier ADA8000s didn't have this, but the newer ones do (including mine). The way I got round it was for all my Receptor multis to have a simple white noise generator VST (eg MDA test tone) in slot 16, set incredibly low (basically as low as I can get it above zero), and send it to all ADAT outputs. You can't notice the noise at all, even loud through headphones, but it's sufficient to keep the noise gate open. If you're lucky you'll have one of the ADA8000 machines without this unhelpful "feature".
You might also notice that if you change multi while there's still a reverb tail sounding through ADAT channels, the Receptor generates a loud and unpleasant buzzing sound while the new multi is loading. Only happens on the ADAT outputs. I've nagged Muse about this for a while now, but to no avail....
Neil
Kurzweil PC3x, Muse Receptor, Nord G2 Modular, Mellotron M400, Nord Electro, Korg Triton, Yamaha Motif Rack ES, Roland D50, Korg Prophecy, Korg MS10, Logan String Synth
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 44 posts since 12 Dec, 2010
Thanks, Neil.
I do have the later ADA8000, and have heard about the gating. I'll try the white noise tip.
I'm looking to get the ADA8200 for the all around improvements. I have a support ticket in to Apogee about the Quartet.
I do have the later ADA8000, and have heard about the gating. I'll try the white noise tip.
I'm looking to get the ADA8200 for the all around improvements. I have a support ticket in to Apogee about the Quartet.
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 44 posts since 12 Dec, 2010
Here is Apogee's response:
"Ideally you would want the Quartet to sync the Receptor otherwise clicks and pops can occur. Unfortunately the S/PDIF input can not be clocked from WC. The two ADAT input ports on the Quartet are for ADAT/ SMUX. Two ports are necessary in order to provide 8-channels of input at sample rates 88.2 and 96 kHz."
So, I guess if I want to record separate channels out of the Receptor at once, I need to go ADAT out of the Receptor to ADAT in of Behringer (or other D/A converter), then the analog outs of converter into my Quartet, thus hogging the preamps I was hoping to use for my hardware synths. Seems overly complicated.
Does anyone see a way around this?
"Ideally you would want the Quartet to sync the Receptor otherwise clicks and pops can occur. Unfortunately the S/PDIF input can not be clocked from WC. The two ADAT input ports on the Quartet are for ADAT/ SMUX. Two ports are necessary in order to provide 8-channels of input at sample rates 88.2 and 96 kHz."
So, I guess if I want to record separate channels out of the Receptor at once, I need to go ADAT out of the Receptor to ADAT in of Behringer (or other D/A converter), then the analog outs of converter into my Quartet, thus hogging the preamps I was hoping to use for my hardware synths. Seems overly complicated.
Does anyone see a way around this?
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Bryan@MuseResearch Bryan@MuseResearch https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=9067
- MUSEician
- 618 posts since 18 Sep, 2003 from Silicon Valley
This is actually all pretty easy when you think about it.
Digital audio is all clock-based. S/PDIF and ADAT both have embedded clocks in their signals. Therefore, if you are taking audio OUTPUTs into the INPUT of another device, the device RECEIVING the digital AUDIO MUST BE REFERENCED TO THE CLOCK OF THAT OUTPUT.
This is done one of two ways:
1. Set the device that is receiving the digital audio feed so that it is clocking off that incoming signal. At that point, all audio in the system that is receiving the ADAT feed will be clocked off that incoming digital audio signal from the external device (i.e. Receptor).
2. Set the device that is transmitting the digital audio feed (Receptor) so that it will lock to an external clock source, typically designated as the "master clock" for your system. With Receptor, the SPDIF input is the only way to slave to an external clock, so you'd have to send the Receptor a S/PDIF audio signal from the master device, put Receptor in to S/PDIF SYNC ENABLED mode, and then the ADAT output of the RECEPTOR would be sync'd to that incoming clock.
Here's another way to think about it:
Think of the clock as the drummer for your band. He can start playing based on his own internal metronome (internal sync), and if you value having groove in your music, you'll play in time with the drummer. (As a drummer myself, I highly recommend you follow your drummer, but that's another thread! ) This is like the Receptor sending out its clock signal to the other devices in the studio... the other devices (players) have to follow the Receptor (drummer) in order to stay in sync.
What happens if the drummer is required to sync to another timing reference, like playing to a click or a track (as when Receptor's ADAT signal has to be sync'd to another piece of gear, like a mixer or DAW)? In this case, the drummer slaves to this external timing reference (S/PDIF External Sync on Receptor is enabled) and in turn the rest of the band syncs to him, allowing the entire tune (system) to be in sync.
The key thing here is that someone has to be in charge, so it is imperative that there be a stable clock source, either generated by Receptor, or by another trusted piece of gear to provide the timing reference that all other digital audio devices need to have for their reference.
Hope this helps more than it confuses!
Bryan
Digital audio is all clock-based. S/PDIF and ADAT both have embedded clocks in their signals. Therefore, if you are taking audio OUTPUTs into the INPUT of another device, the device RECEIVING the digital AUDIO MUST BE REFERENCED TO THE CLOCK OF THAT OUTPUT.
This is done one of two ways:
1. Set the device that is receiving the digital audio feed so that it is clocking off that incoming signal. At that point, all audio in the system that is receiving the ADAT feed will be clocked off that incoming digital audio signal from the external device (i.e. Receptor).
2. Set the device that is transmitting the digital audio feed (Receptor) so that it will lock to an external clock source, typically designated as the "master clock" for your system. With Receptor, the SPDIF input is the only way to slave to an external clock, so you'd have to send the Receptor a S/PDIF audio signal from the master device, put Receptor in to S/PDIF SYNC ENABLED mode, and then the ADAT output of the RECEPTOR would be sync'd to that incoming clock.
Here's another way to think about it:
Think of the clock as the drummer for your band. He can start playing based on his own internal metronome (internal sync), and if you value having groove in your music, you'll play in time with the drummer. (As a drummer myself, I highly recommend you follow your drummer, but that's another thread! ) This is like the Receptor sending out its clock signal to the other devices in the studio... the other devices (players) have to follow the Receptor (drummer) in order to stay in sync.
What happens if the drummer is required to sync to another timing reference, like playing to a click or a track (as when Receptor's ADAT signal has to be sync'd to another piece of gear, like a mixer or DAW)? In this case, the drummer slaves to this external timing reference (S/PDIF External Sync on Receptor is enabled) and in turn the rest of the band syncs to him, allowing the entire tune (system) to be in sync.
The key thing here is that someone has to be in charge, so it is imperative that there be a stable clock source, either generated by Receptor, or by another trusted piece of gear to provide the timing reference that all other digital audio devices need to have for their reference.
Hope this helps more than it confuses!
Bryan
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 44 posts since 12 Dec, 2010
Bryan,
That is a great description, thanks!
I'm going to try option 2), as the Apogee Quartet must be the master clock source (there's no way to make it the slave).
In a follow up email, I explained to Apogee support that the Receptor would be sending the digital output through ADAT, but could only receive clock from SPIDF in, and asked if a simple BNC male to RCA male cable would work. His response was "theoretically."
So, I've ordered a cable and I'll report back.
That is a great description, thanks!
I'm going to try option 2), as the Apogee Quartet must be the master clock source (there's no way to make it the slave).
In a follow up email, I explained to Apogee support that the Receptor would be sending the digital output through ADAT, but could only receive clock from SPIDF in, and asked if a simple BNC male to RCA male cable would work. His response was "theoretically."
So, I've ordered a cable and I'll report back.
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 44 posts since 12 Dec, 2010
Well, the gentleman at Apogee was correct: the Apogee's master clock was not carried over the BNC/RCA cable into the Receptor's SPIDF in. I'm glad I only spent $7 on the cable.
Maybe it might be a good idea for future Receptors to have BNC word clock in?
I did get a Behringer ADA8200. Didn't get a chance to A/B it with the ADA8000, but the converters and analog outs seem to be doing a nice job with the Receptor ADAT output of audio and word clock.
Maybe it might be a good idea for future Receptors to have BNC word clock in?
I did get a Behringer ADA8200. Didn't get a chance to A/B it with the ADA8000, but the converters and analog outs seem to be doing a nice job with the Receptor ADAT output of audio and word clock.
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- KVRer
- 6 posts since 3 Dec, 2013 from Nashville, TN
I have a Receptor Trio / 1818vsl combo - Logic Studio 9 - any suggestions for an ADAT interface that would work with a late 2009 iMac?
