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Classic ZynAddSubFX VST version

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jobromedia
KVRAF
 
4918 posts since 10 Feb, 2006, from Stockholm, Sweden

Postby jobromedia; Mon Jan 10, 2011 4:59 pm

Waiting for these functions:

* Proper automation from FL Studio

* Multiple outputs.
Best regards from Johan Brodd.
JoBroMedia since 1996.
markuc
KVRist
 
37 posts since 8 Jan, 2005

Postby markuc; Wed Feb 23, 2011 6:23 am

Hi, I'm using Zyn with Reaper 4a on Win 7 64, I open Zyn as VSTi in Reaper, works fine, but sometimes crashes Reaper's 32bit VST wraper. But only wraper, Reaper is rock stable ... I am new in Zyn, it is very good sounding synth ... what about banks ? I downloaded all banks from KVR, but I am looking for some drums ... and what about new versions ? Thank You and sorry my English :-)
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jackoo
KVRian
 
544 posts since 3 Jul, 2006

Postby jackoo; Sun Feb 27, 2011 1:18 pm

jobromedia wrote:Waiting for these functions:

* Proper automation from FL Studio

* Multiple outputs.

Okay ppl! So you want multiple outputs :D you shall have multiple outputs!!

(Proper automation is not possible at the moment :P )


Presenting v2.4.1.431 VST:

Download link [hosted on Mediafire]:
ZynAddSubFx VST


- Fixed some difficult memory bugs which caused Zyn to crash when unloading

- Added the possibility to use 16 different outputs, corresponding to the 16 parts available in zyn. Please see the MIDI window. Activate 'Multiple Outputs' and 'Turbo' (should bypass some code, when using multiple outputs and make it a little faster).

- Output 1 is always the output having the internal mixed signal. This is by default active, and the rest (2 to 17) are normally disabled. If you enable 'Multiple Outputs', output1 is disabled, and output2 to output17 are stereo outputs corresponding to the 16 parts (output 2 = part1; output3 = part2 and so on).

- Also it is important to mention that when using the multiple outputs mode, the system effects are bypassed. It did not make sense to have them on. Please add independent effects to individual parts.

- Unfortunately, this version may be more cpu intensive than the last one (couldn't do better for the moment... I'm not sure how much Turbo will help with performance)

- Also this is not the *native* VST port everybody is waiting for. It's still based on the FLTK GUI, and it is not a major update. I'm considering porting the GUI to QT, but that may take a lot of time. This means it it still not natively compampatible with the VST standard, so your host won't see all those parameters, and I cannot remove the dummy window :(

Please tell me how this version works for you. I'm keen to see how it works with the many hosts available. I've tested it on vsthost and eXT 1.41

---------
VDX
== VDX == One Man can make a difference!
My music is on http://soundcloud.com/vdxi
laba170
KVRer
 
22 posts since 10 Oct, 2010

Postby laba170; Mon Feb 28, 2011 1:01 am

Thanks for the new release. :)

Multiple outputs work just fine in FL studio.

Also, cpu use is pretty much the same as before at least when using the turbo mode. Can't say I notice any difference.
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V'ger
KVRAF
 
3928 posts since 15 Dec, 2009

Postby V'ger; Mon Feb 28, 2011 5:56 am

Thanks a lot, works fine in Reaper. :)

Very good timing as we're gonna use it in the KVR One-Synth-Challenge next month, and this should make it a bit less of a challenge ;) : http://sites.google.com/site/kvrosc/osc-26-zynaddsubfx
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jackoo
KVRian
 
544 posts since 3 Jul, 2006

Postby jackoo; Tue Mar 01, 2011 9:11 am

Hi V'ger. You posted in the 'One-Synth-Challenge' page that zyn is sensitive if you change programs too fast. Could you please give me an example that is easy to reproduce? For instance tell me two patches that if you change fast between one and the other you get a crash?

I will try to fix it. :D
Big Tick
KVRAF
 
3188 posts since 28 May, 2001, from New York, NY

Postby Big Tick; Tue Mar 01, 2011 9:14 am

jackoo wrote:Hi V'ger. You posted in the 'One-Synth-Challenge' page that zyn is sensitive if you change programs too fast. Could you please give me an example that is easy to reproduce? For instance tell me two patches that if you change fast between one and the other you get a crash?

I will try to fix it. :D



It will crash with almost every preset in Zen.
User avatar
jackoo
KVRian
 
544 posts since 3 Jul, 2006

Postby jackoo; Tue Mar 01, 2011 9:39 am

so Zen is a vsti that can load other vsti. How do you change presets? how does zen talk to zyn to tell it to load another preset?

(because it is not using zyn's own bank editor... i suppose... what functions does it call?)

LE: Nevermind :D Where can I find some docu on how to implement 'effGetProgramName' and 'updateDisplay'? ;)

Are these functions supported by VST SDK 2.3? Can't seem to see them specified in the 2.3 help docu.

And how would you like to read the current preset? Zyn has 16 parts. Each part can have a different preset. I use getChunk and setChunk to save/load the entire setup for all the 16 parts.
Big Tick
KVRAF
 
3188 posts since 28 May, 2001, from New York, NY

Postby Big Tick; Tue Mar 01, 2011 12:27 pm

jackoo wrote:so Zen is a vsti that can load other vsti. How do you change presets? how does zen talk to zyn to tell it to load another preset?

(because it is not using zyn's own bank editor... i suppose... what functions does it call?)

LE: Nevermind :D Where can I find some docu on how to implement 'effGetProgramName' and 'updateDisplay'? ;)

Are these functions supported by VST SDK 2.3? Can't seem to see them specified in the 2.3 help docu.

And how would you like to read the current preset? Zyn has 16 parts. Each part can have a different preset. I use getChunk and setChunk to save/load the entire setup for all the 16 parts.


Think of Zen as a host, actually, when used in standalone mode, it is a host. So it talks to Zyn, just like any other host, using the VST opcodes system. effGetProgramName is one of these opcodes, the VST sdk translates it into the getProgramName() call, so you must simply make sure you implement getProgramName() to return the name of the current preset.

Zen is all about managing and sharing the presets, so it first needs to "import" the presets in its database. This is done in any of the following ways:

- drop fxp files in Zen presets list.
- with a synth selected in Zen, click the "I" icon to import the current preset.

If you use the second option, Zen calls getChunk to retrieve the current preset, followed by getProgramName to get the preset name. If you look at the documentation for getChunk, the second parameter in this method is named "isPreset", and indicates if Zyn should return a full bank chunk, or a single preset.

Finally, because it can become tedious to click on the "I" button to import 1000 presets, Zen also has an "autoimport" mode, activated by double-clicking the "I" icon. In this mode, Zen will automatically try to perform a preset import (by calling getChunk and getProgramName, as above) every time a new preset is selected in Zyn. How does it know that a new preset has been selected ? it knows because any proper VST is supposed to call AudioEffectX::updateDisplay() (which in turn, notifies the host), whenever a new preset is selected.

Any question ? feel free to email me, I would love to have Zyn running smoothly in Zen :)
bjporter
KVRAF
 
2516 posts since 18 Dec, 2010, from North America

Postby bjporter; Wed Mar 02, 2011 8:55 pm

I thought something was wrong in Cubase regarding multi-outputs, but I read this:

"Activate 'Multiple Outputs' and 'Turbo' (should bypass some code, when using multiple outputs and make it a little faster). "

Works great now after turning these on!! Almost everything but this is unintuitive.

Thankyou :)
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V'ger
KVRAF
 
3928 posts since 15 Dec, 2009

Postby V'ger; Wed Mar 02, 2011 9:17 pm

jackoo wrote:Hi V'ger. You posted in the 'One-Synth-Challenge' page that zyn is sensitive if you change programs too fast. Could you please give me an example that is easy to reproduce? For instance tell me two patches that if you change fast between one and the other you get a crash?

I will try to fix it. :D

Don't have two that will cause this every time, but generally, switching from long sounding ones when the tail is still sounding to another seems to be the worst.

Or maybe in reality it's between patches that uses more synth engines, I really don't know.

Like I said in this thread, http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... ch#4410749 when switching between presets saved to native presets, the crashes are rare or almost non-existent so maybe it's related to the GUI..

And the crash is more like a freeze where a sound will start going in a fast loop. Even killing the DAW will leave the sound still going.
bjporter
KVRAF
 
2516 posts since 18 Dec, 2010, from North America

Postby bjporter; Wed Mar 02, 2011 9:29 pm

A few things:

1) I opened up 2 instances of ZynAddSubFX, the first instance was 'Basic', the 2nd was 'Advanced'... not sure why. After adding 62 more instances, they were all advanced.
2) When I closed Cubase 5.5 (with 2 instances), the project wouldn't close. It seems to close the first instance... but the 2nd instance will just freaze, having to force cubase to restart. After adding 62 Instances... the project closed fine the 1st time. I tried it again, opened and closed very snappy with 64.
3) Now REALLY strangely: The keyboard, and mouse don't work right when one or more instances of ZynAddSubFx are open. Seriously.. very wierd. I'll explain. The mouse sometimes clicks, sometimes not. It clicks fine in ZynAddSubFx, but in Cubase, it's a 50% chance that a click will register anywhere. Same with the keyboard. Ok just found out, that if i click... then wait 4 seconds, it registers with a higher chance... weird.
Solution/Workaround: Close out ALL the ZynAddSubFX Host Windows...

Additional Info:
I just loaded 64 instances of ZynAddSubFX, and enabled all 16 channels each (evoking many a lulz around here) and running smoother than a baby's bum.

I'm running Multi-core AMD, more than 4GB of ram - windows 7.

EDIT:
I just played with the virtual keyboard, like a mad man, did sweeps up and down using the default patch... and gave cubase a soft-crash - meaning cubase poped up a warning saying that it's best to close the project and backup because something went wrong. Probably just a try-throw-catch. After I hit continue... everything worked fine.
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jackoo
KVRian
 
544 posts since 3 Jul, 2006

Postby jackoo; Thu Mar 03, 2011 10:52 am

Thank you for your feedback.

bjporter wrote:1) I opened up 2 instances of ZynAddSubFX, the first instance was 'Basic', the 2nd was 'Advanced'... not sure why. After adding 62 more instances, they were all advanced.


Ok. This may be important to mention. Please have your zynaddsubfxXML.cfg file in the root folder of your DAW. (The same folder where you have your *Daw*.exe file, in your case the same folder where you have cubase.exe).

If you use another exe to load the dll, like for instance vsthost, then please put the cfg file in the folder where you have vsthost.exe

This cfg file contains some important info about how the VST should behave.

Important lines are:

<par name="sound_buffer_size" value="256"/>

Please replace here 256 by the amount of bytes you have for your ASIO Buffer Size, for optimum performance. If you use the audio inputs, this value MUST be a multiple of your real ASIO buffer size.

<par name="user_interface_mode" value="1"/>

This tells zyn what default interface to use. 1 = advanced; 2 = beginner;

Sample rate is ignored because now the vst asks the host for the sample rate and updates accordingly.

The part with

<BANKROOT id="0">
<string name="bank_root">./</string>
</BANKROOT>
<BANKROOT id="1">
<string name="bank_root">C:\\Program Files\\ZynAddSubFx\\banks</string>
</BANKROOT>
<BANKROOT id="2">
<string name="bank_root">banks</string>
</BANKROOT>
<PRESETSROOT id="0">
<string name="presets_root">./</string>
</PRESETSROOT>
<PRESETSROOT id="1">
<string name="presets_root">../presets</string>
</PRESETSROOT>
<PRESETSROOT id="2">
<string name="presets_root">presets</string>
</PRESETSROOT>


is which tells zyn where to look for the banks and presets.

bjporter wrote:2) When I closed Cubase 5.5 (with 2 instances), the project wouldn't close. It seems to close the first instance... but the 2nd instance will just freaze, having to force cubase to restart. After adding 62 Instances... the project closed fine the 1st time. I tried it again, opened and closed very snappy with 64.


This is quite difficult to reproduce and debug. Does it always crash on projects with 2 instances?...

bjporter wrote:3) Now REALLY strangely: The keyboard, and mouse don't work right when one or more instances of ZynAddSubFx are open. Seriously.. very wierd. I'll explain. The mouse sometimes clicks, sometimes not. It clicks fine in ZynAddSubFx, but in Cubase, it's a 50% chance that a click will register anywhere. Same with the keyboard. Ok just found out, that if i click... then wait 4 seconds, it registers with a higher chance... weird.
Solution/Workaround: Close out ALL the ZynAddSubFX Host Windows...


This is quite well known, and it is because the FLTK GUI is made in a separate thread. The events loop for the FLTK GUI (which handles the mouse clicks, etc.) interferes with the events loop of the host.

This is the main reason why I recommended to use a wrapper before. Unfortunately, until a port with another GUI toolkit such as QT is implemented, which should have the same events loop inherited from the host, this problem cannot be fixed.

I don't know if your workaround (closing all zyn's windows) really helps on all hosts, but if it does than perhaps it is not necessary to run zyn inside the wrapper.
== VDX == One Man can make a difference!
My music is on http://soundcloud.com/vdxi
bjporter
KVRAF
 
2516 posts since 18 Dec, 2010, from North America

Postby bjporter; Thu Mar 03, 2011 11:00 am

Thanks for the reply, I'll report back in a few days. I was pretty happy about it, even without reading much on it first, very usable.
User avatar
jackoo
KVRian
 
544 posts since 3 Jul, 2006

Postby jackoo; Thu Mar 10, 2011 2:54 am

OK... here's some new news...

Been trying to fix bugs for the past 2 weeks...

Please try:
ZynAddSubFx VST v2.4.1.442alpha

Many things have changed internally in this version, so please test it. Because of the many changes, I'd say this is now in alpha stage.

ZynAddSubFX VST
ver. 2.4.1.442alpha VST VDX version

- Rewrote important VST<->host communication routines (

to be checked if works on all hosts!!! maybe some new erratic behavior in other hosts? vsthost works just fine. :) In eXT1.41 it sometimes crashes when unloading. That's really hard to find why...

But the good news:


- Fixed a bug that caused some patches not to sound properly.

(try to load arpeggio1 in the previous ver., and you'll hear some nasty noise)

- Fixed a bug that caused zyn to crash when changing patches
Really... it shouldn't crash now, no matter how fast you change the patches. If it does crash, please report immediately :P :P

- Fixed? a bug that could presumably cause loud sound spikes and other strange things
I actually didn't get any spikes on my system, but I heard others had in other hosts. Hopefully they're gone completely now.

- Fixed MidiLearn automation bug to work with multiple instances
Don't try to add MidiLearn automation rules if you have multiple instances in the previous version. Strange things may happen :)


- Fixed MidiLearn window to refresh and remember the MultiCH settings
- Some very mild code optimization
- Fixed many many memory leaks
- Overall VST stability should be improved (hopefully by a lot!)
- Zyn VST should not crash so often anymore
- ...
- Zyn VST should not crash so often anymore
- Zyn VST should not crash so often anymore
- If Zyn VST does crash, at least it should be in the unloading phase... (yes, still a bug that is random...)
- Added inherently several other bugs, while fixing the above (use this with caution: this is in alpha stage)


I hope this version will be more stable for you. In case you get some reproducible crashes, please announce them here.

===
VDX
== VDX == One Man can make a difference!
My music is on http://soundcloud.com/vdxi
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