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hbasm
KVRist
 
76 posts since 8 May, 2006, from Denmark

Postby hbasm; Fri Jul 20, 2007 6:42 am

Thanks everyone for your comments. I'm glad you like the plug-in.

adl wrote:Anyword on the knobs? How do they effect the stereoizing?


Yes I forgot to tell. The "rate" and "depth" knobs controls the vibrato speed and depth of the chorus. Its sort of an underlying chorus that you don't hear much, but its responsible for the widening effect.

The "delay" knob adds a constant delay to the wet signal, to further define the character of the widening-effect. Its also useful in cases where the volume of one channel begins to waver above/below the other channel. This happens sometimes on one-note sounds, and is a natural side-effect (so to speak) of the plug-in. But its rarely desirable so if this happens, you can dial the "delay" knob a little to solve the problem. Or use a compressor/limiter after the stereoizer. (Though this will affect mono-compatibility to some degree)

Braindoc wrote:can you give some more details about the signal processing? i guess, you add the wet signal on one channel and subtract it on the other one in order to achieve exact cancellation on monoizing? ...and is the wet signal simply a vibrato-ed version of the input? or is there more dsp-voodoo going on?


That just about covers it, braindoc. The stereo input is first converted to mono (L + R) then it goes through a mono chorus-effect (pretty much a standard chorus with a triangle wave for vibrato. I tried other waves as well but triangle worked best. Perhaps it would be icing on the cake to smooth the edges of the triangle, though in most situations the difference would probably be inaudible). A constant delay is obtained with the same code and controllable with the delay knob. The signal is then converted to stereo and one channel is inverted. Then its goes to the dry/wet mixer. The mixer is a bit unusual as the ratios are different. The dry signal won't drop below 100% until the slider is below mid-position. Similary, the wet signal won't drop below 100% until the slider is above mid-position. At mid-position, both wet and dry are 100%. This gives you "full effect" while remaining fully mono-compatible at this point.

Sometimes simple works best and I think this is one of those cases. I was surprised that I couldn't find this type of stereoizer elsewhere.

Playmuzic wrote:yeah the drumloop demo sounds a bit flanger to me (at high freq) but still a great plugin.


Yes, sometimes there is a noticable flanging. You can rid it, by dialing the depth knob to zero. This might work well for drums. It will disable the chorus though. What you have left is actually a "surrounder" effect, that you can also get elsewhere.

PeterL wrote:Hopefully NuGenAudio is not angry about the same name


Yeah well, I hope not. I thought "stereoize" was a common enough word, and it seemed like the best way to describe the plug-in...

Mabian wrote:What do you think of making a phase meter plugin? Much needed here ;D


Perhaps if you could elaborate on this? What would be the purpose of a phase-meter?

Syncopated_silence wrote:would it be possible to have numerical values beside the faders and knobs?


I thought about this. Perhaps the numerical values could be shown when hovering the mouse over the knobs and fader. I don't know how but maybe I'll look into it.
mabian
KVRAF
 
1725 posts since 9 Jan, 2005

Postby mabian; Fri Jul 20, 2007 7:50 am

Phase meter is a very useful meter that measures correlation between left and right channel. It shows when there's likely phase cancellation in a stereo signal. Of course it does not apply to mono signal, where you don't have two signals adding.

I think there's not such a plugin, especially for free. Adobe Audition and Izotope Ozone have this kind of meter. It would be very cool to have a dedicated lightweight plugin for this, just like there are free spectrum analyzers like Voxengo SPAN or Blua Cat Analyzer.

- Mario
adl
KVRian
 
979 posts since 26 Jun, 2005

Postby adl; Fri Jul 20, 2007 8:22 am

Thanx for clearing things up about the knobs. Really like your plugin, its a nice widener. Used the Dimension D (chorus) from the UAD card for widening but it's not suited for hihats and percussion stuff (it sucks the punch / attack out of these things)
Your plugin doesn't do that so this is my tool for widening hihat lines and percussion thing :-)
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bmanic
KVRAF
 
7799 posts since 3 Feb, 2003, from Finland, Espoo

Postby bmanic; Fri Jul 20, 2007 8:28 am

A little tip for widening percussion/hihats etc.

Get a really good reverb that can do ambience/very small rooms well and then simply make the reverb mostly Side signal (for instance using voxengo MSED). I've found this to work very well. You can then also toy around with the pre-delay of the reverb to get additional depth to a signal.

Cheers!
bManic

PS. good candidates for reverb are: hmm.. none? eheheheh.. no seriously, Sacha's samplitude reverb thingy (edit: variverb pro!) would probably be just the ticket. Some good impulses can also be used and some of the Nebula3 programs if you tweak em to make em short.
"I'm not trying to be anyone's savior. I'm just trying to think about the future and not be sad." - Elon Musk, TED talk April 2017
ermi
KVRian
 
880 posts since 22 Jan, 2005

Postby ermi; Fri Jul 20, 2007 8:32 am

That's a very nice plugin! Thanks! :)
Image
Music Engineer
KVRAF
 
3721 posts since 8 Mar, 2004, from Berlin, Germany

Postby Music Engineer; Fri Jul 20, 2007 10:38 am

hbasm wrote:The stereo input is first converted to mono (L + R) then it goes through a mono chorus-effect (pretty much a standard chorus with a triangle wave for vibrato. I tried other waves as well but triangle worked best. Perhaps it would be icing on the cake to smooth the edges of the triangle, though in most situations the difference would probably be inaudible). A constant delay is obtained with the same code and controllable with the delay knob. The signal is then converted to stereo and one channel is inverted. Then its goes to the dry/wet mixer. The mixer is a bit unusual as the ratios are different. The dry signal won't drop below 100% until the slider is below mid-position. Similary, the wet signal won't drop below 100% until the slider is above mid-position. At mid-position, both wet and dry are 100%. This gives you "full effect" while remaining fully mono-compatible at this point.

aha. thanks for elaborating.

Sometimes simple works best

+1 :tu:
Image
Music Engineer
KVRAF
 
3721 posts since 8 Mar, 2004, from Berlin, Germany

Postby Music Engineer; Fri Jul 20, 2007 10:48 am

hbasm wrote:...a standard chorus with a triangle wave for vibrato. I tried other waves as well but triangle worked best.

even superior to a sine-wave?
Image
noonelivesforever
KVRist
 
115 posts since 2 May, 2007

Postby noonelivesforever; Fri Jul 20, 2007 11:57 am

Shy wrote:Doesn't work well on drums, as expected.

how about this:

Thank you for sharing your effort with us for free! I tried it and it used to work on many things and I like it, however IMHO it rather doesn't sound well on drums...
hbasm
KVRist
 
76 posts since 8 May, 2006, from Denmark

Postby hbasm; Fri Jul 20, 2007 12:09 pm

braindoc wrote:triangle wave ... even superior to a sine-wave?


Yeah, I tried the sine-wave first but it didn't sound as good. I also tried an interpolated noise-wave for a more complex chorus but that didn't sound very well either. The triangle-wave gave the nicest results and also happens to be the wave, used on the hardware synth I'm emulating (a 15 year old "Kawai Spectra" keyboard).

Mabian wrote:Phase meter is a very useful meter that measures correlation between left and right channel. It shows when there's likely phase cancellation in a stereo signal.


Ah, yes. But I think the meter would just go up proportionally to the MIX fader going down. Unless the dry signal already contains some spatial information, in which case the stereoizer would add to that. For mono sounds, however, the amount of phase-cancellation introduced by the stereoizer is quite predictable. In center position, the mix is 50/50. That means, 50% of the sound is mono (0 degrees) and 50% is phase-inverted (180 degrees) creating the illusion of sound coming from everywhere in between (well not just an illusion, in fact it DOES come from everywhere. I mark it "90 degrees" on the GUI to explain this "in between" state where the sound is "as wide as it gets". I hope its not too confusing). Still, a phase-meter would rest at 50%.
Shy
KVRAF
 
5175 posts since 26 Jun, 2004

Postby Shy; Fri Jul 20, 2007 2:23 pm

noonelivesforever wrote:
Shy wrote:Doesn't work well on drums, as expected.

how about this:

Thank you for sharing your effort with us for free! I tried it and it used to work on many things and I like it, however IMHO it rather doesn't sound well on drums...

How about "Doesn't work well on drums, as expected from a plugin that basically delays a channel and flanges the sound rather than using sophisticated psychoacoustics algorithms to achieve a perceivably widened stereo field". I wasn't expecting more than any other software "widener" out there except the good thing that it's phase friendly. Enjoy this new and improved, free introspect.
"Music is spiritual. The music business is not." - Claudio Monteverdi
ermi
KVRian
 
880 posts since 22 Jan, 2005

Postby ermi; Sat Jul 21, 2007 6:06 am

I noticed that when you load the plugin a file gets created: tri2KtableSM.dat

No big deal, but if it's not necessary I'd rather not have it. :)
mike@manike
KVRian
 
538 posts since 12 Jan, 2005, from Leciestershire, England

Postby mike@manike; Sat Jul 21, 2007 6:17 am

I would point out I wouldnt be particulary happy using an effect that dissapears when you play it out through a mono source. ie a radio
Maryann and Michael Tedstone
www.manikemusic.com / Our Showreel
hbasm
KVRist
 
76 posts since 8 May, 2006, from Denmark

Postby hbasm; Sat Jul 21, 2007 7:06 am

ermi wrote:I noticed that when you load the plugin a file gets created: tri2KtableSM.dat

No big deal, but if it's not necessary I'd rather not have it.


I know, and I hope to get rid of it, in a future release.

Mike-t3 wrote:I would point out I wouldnt be particulary happy using an effect that dissapears when you play it out through a mono source. ie a radio


Each to his own! In this case, however, the sole purpose of the plugin is to widen the stereo image - not to add something to the sound. The idea is that a trumpet is still a trumpet, it just takes up more space in the stereo field. This plugin can "almost" do that, unlike a typical chorus effect that is supposed to turn one trumpet into 10 trumpets or a typical echo, which changes the musical meaning of your music (melodies don't always lend themselves to being echoed).

As a sound-engineer I've also found that music, since its made up of complex sound, benefits from sounding simpler, when played through a mono source. In other words, music benefits from less chorus, less reverb, when played in mono. It makes everything clearer and easier for the listener. I use phase-cancellation as a tool to improve the sound. To accomodate people who listen in "mono like" enviroments while giving other people the satisfaction of fat stereo.
syncopated_silence
KVRist
 
181 posts since 15 Mar, 2005, from Éire

Postby syncopated_silence; Sat Jul 21, 2007 8:32 am

If you could tack something like steinbergs stereo expander after this effect you could really go for extreme widening.. the stereo expander only needs a small amount of subtle stereo information to widen it.. this and that are a perfect together. great for a mono source to ultra wide.
ermi
KVRian
 
880 posts since 22 Jan, 2005

Postby ermi; Sat Jul 21, 2007 9:34 am

A small feature request...
In Renoise you can see the controls of a plugin also without the plugin's GUI, see:
Image

Could you re-name the controls according to their function? (Instead of Stereoizer-Knob, Stereoizer-Slider)

I'm merely guessing that it's an easy thing to do. If not, nevermind.

Cheers! :)
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