KVR Audio

Arksun · Post by **Arksun** » Mon May 12, 2008 12:29 pm

tahome wrote:Well, I'm kind of a vocoder fan myself and I recently tried the demo of the latest Eiosis version and I still didn't like it. It is lacking the presence of Orange and was difficult to control in a mix (clipping all over the board). The synth is barely usable and the intelligibility of the vocoded sounds is very low.

--th

Strange, my experience has been the exact opposite, the Eiosis ELS Vocoder can give far more intelligeable results than the orange, which just sounded too fluffy n stuffy to me. Granted it was a very old version of Orange I tried, perhaps they've made some improvements since then.

Goseba · Post by **Goseba** » Mon May 12, 2008 12:42 pm

Arksun wrote:
tahome wrote:Well, I'm kind of a vocoder fan myself and I recently tried the demo of the latest Eiosis version and I still didn't like it. It is lacking the presence of Orange and was difficult to control in a mix (clipping all over the board). The synth is barely usable and the intelligibility of the vocoded sounds is very low.

--th
Strange, my experience has been the exact opposite, the Eiosis ELS Vocoder can give far more intelligeable results than the orange, which just sounded too fluffy n stuffy to me. Granted it was a very old version of Orange I tried, perhaps they've made some improvements since then.

I agree with Arksun here. Maybe the Orange vocoder has improved over the years, I haven't tried it lately to find out, but the Eiosis vocoder I find to be very clear on vocals if that is required.

poshook · Post by **poshook** » Mon May 12, 2008 1:36 pm

I bought Image Line Juice Pack year ago because of IL Vocoder. It is amazing, no latency, perfect MIDI control, endless colours

tahome · Post by **tahome** » Mon May 12, 2008 1:57 pm

Like I said I tried only the demo of the Eiosis (maybe the full version has better quality settings?) and I do own the full version of Orange Vocoder. The Eiosis didn't work for me, it sounded too muffled and distorted and I really didn't like it. I think in the end it all comes down to taste... I really got into the OrangeVocoder sound after listening to the Bryan Adams/Chicane tune, which I quite enjoyed. I realize that this isn't eveybody's cup of tea but I like the results that I get with my orange and I'm really looking forward to trying the new version when it comes out.

--th

meister eder · Post by **meister eder** » Mon May 12, 2008 3:39 pm

tahome wrote:Like I said I tried only the demo of the Eiosis (maybe the full version has better quality settings?) and I do own the full version of Orange Vocoder. The Eiosis didn't work for me, it sounded too muffled and distorted and I really didn't like it.

How long ago did you try the ELS? The very first version had a bug where the low pass band could introduce nasty distortion.

tahome · Post by **tahome** » Mon May 12, 2008 3:49 pm

Last week, as an AudioUnit plug in. The version number of the demo is 1.0.

--th

meister eder · Post by **meister eder** » Mon May 12, 2008 5:51 pm

tahome wrote:The version number of the demo is 1.0.

That's kind of odd, since the full version is at 1.1 (or even 1.2?) already.

tahome · Post by **tahome** » Mon May 12, 2008 6:07 pm

That's what I downloaded off their web site - the AU plug in doesn't have a version number in its "get info" pane but the Info.plist inside the .component says it's 1.0.

--th

Arksun · Post by **Arksun** » Mon May 12, 2008 9:12 pm

tahome wrote:Like I said I tried only the demo of the Eiosis (maybe the full version has better quality settings?) and I do own the full version of Orange Vocoder. The Eiosis didn't work for me, it sounded too muffled and distorted and I really didn't like it. I think in the end it all comes down to taste... I really got into the OrangeVocoder sound after listening to the Bryan Adams/Chicane tune, which I quite enjoyed. I realize that this isn't eveybody's cup of tea but I like the results that I get with my orange and I'm really looking forward to trying the new version when it comes out.

--th

Actually, reminding myself of the Orange once more listening to its audio demos I see what you mean. It does provide a very clean n clear sound (quite why I wrote waffly and muffled earlier I have no idea, lol, my mistake). Comparing to ELS Vocoders defaults presets and I can understand why the more rougher grungier sound put you off. You're more after that ultra clean synth pad style vocoder sound (ala Chicanes Dont give it up) so I can totally understand now why you prefer the Orange. They are quite different sounding beasts.

However I still feel the ELS is miles ahead of the Orange. Aside from the fact that it can do retro analogue style ones better than anything else i've heard, it just sounds far more gutsy and hardware like, making the orange sound rather flat and lifeless in comparison, the orange has very little sense of dynamic punch to it.
The ELS has an insane amount of tweakability, every section has a little corner tab which, when clicked on opens up a whole new sections of controls and this is where the really fun parts are.

ELS Vocoders up to ver 1.6 now and I've just been having a little play with it to see if I could make a more synth pad vocoding type sound out of it. You might still not find this smooth enough for your tastes, but I really like this sound. Added a bit of delay to it too to spruce it up a bit

http://www.arksunmusic.com/music/els%20vocoder%20eg.mp3

The ELS Vocoder is one of those plugs where reading the manual is essential to get the best out of it.

tahome · Post by **tahome** » Tue May 13, 2008 5:20 am

Yes, that is exactly what I experienced. I agree that the Eiosis is probably the better choice if you're after that cheesy Kraftwerk type of vocoder sound (no pun intended, I just don't know how to describe it better), but for the music I make I need a more wide spectrum vocoder that has a very rich and brilliant sound. For that purpose I really think the Orange Vocoder is the best on the market. Regarding tweakability - from the looks of it the Orange's synth doesn't offer as much options as the Eiosis synth, but I usually patch my good old Prophet 5 through it anway and don't use the built-in synths at all. To be honest, I didn't quite like either of the synths very much.

I don't know what's up with the Eiosis version numbers - I downloaded the demo only last week and it says it's version 1.0. Maybe they forgot to put the correct version in the AudioUnit plug in? Or maybe they're just a bit behind on the Mac platform - most companies really don't care too much about the Mac anyway...

At any rate, I'll keep an eye on the Eiosis thing and I will certainly check out the new version of the Orange Vocoder when it comes out...
--th

deastman · Post by **deastman** » Tue May 13, 2008 5:41 am

Can anyone point me to a high quality, intelligible demo mp3 of the Eiosis? Arksun, sorry but I couldn't understand much of that last demo. All the demos I've heard so far have been equally difficult to understand. My real analog Doepfer vocoder is much clearer, although I usually prefer the Electrix Warp Factory, Nord Modular G2, or Akai VSTi. I like the features of the Eiosis, but I just haven't been able to find a good, clear demo yet.

tahome · Post by **tahome** » Tue May 13, 2008 5:59 am

There are quite a few good sound samples of the Orange here:

http://www.prosoniq.com/main/orangevocoder/

Honestly, I really don't like the Eiosis demos. They're hard to understand and in most cases I was wondering which sounds are actually vocoded and which ones are just regular synths...

The demo works better for that purpose but I still think that intelligibility of th Eiosis vocoder is very low compared to the Orange. That's ok if you like that kind of sound, but like I said, I'd prefer the Orange anytime.

--th

deastman · Post by **deastman** » Tue May 13, 2008 7:08 am

I actually don't like the Orange for just the opposite reason. It sounds *too* intelligible. It leaves too much of the qualities of my real voice, making it very easy to distinguish who the modulation source is. The vocoders I like fall somewhere in between. The Akai, in particular, provides excellent intelligibility while not sounding like "the real you", and its very easy to tweak the bands. I have a bunch of other vocoders, so I really don't need the Eiosis. The main appeal of it is the auto-pitch tracking feature, which isn't too common. I built a Nord Modular G2 patch which lets me do the same thing, but it usually requires a lot of tweaking to get the best results. I also seem to recall seeing a Reaktor patch in the user library with a pitch tracking vocoder, but I haven't tried it yet.

tahome · Post by **tahome** » Tue May 13, 2008 7:13 am

Yes you definitely have a point there. That's why I'm eager to try the new Orange Vocoder, from what I have seen at Musik Messe it has 8 (?) different sound modes, some of which sound pretty cheesy, too...

--th

Goseba · Post by **Goseba** » Tue May 13, 2008 8:27 am

I haven't actually tried it yet, but the Eiosis vocoder does have a side chain input now to allow you to use different carriers. This should greatly expand it sonic capabilities.

ELS Vocoder or orange vocoder?