Redline Monitor - how does it work?

[Eddie(Soulseekers)]

That's an interesting question--I understand you're running multiple outputs into a hardware mixer? It should still be OK as long as you don't insert multiple instances (directly or indirectly) after one another on the same signal path, but just a single instance on each individual output.

In other words, a separate instance on each stereo out shd do the trick. Just make sure to pan the stereo channels hard left and right, otherwise I'm not sure what will happen.

Take care,

-- dj!


Or could I just put it on the masterbus like I do with IKmultimedia ARC

[djex]

I would much appreciate that! I don't see a technical reason why it shdn't work but TBH I haven't tried this so...

Peace,

-- dj!

[djeroen]

Tried the demo with high expectations, but was somewhat dissapointed

To me it does not sound like listening to loudspeakers.
I think there are at least three important causes for this:

First of all; the human auditory system totally relies on
*changes* in the spectrum (especially above 5 kHz)
to estimate the elevation of a sound source.
By making the spectrum 'flat', you destroy *the* most relevant
elevation cue that we humans have.

Second: I did not perceive any 'externalization'. The sound
sources stayed 'inside the head' no matter what knobs I turned
or distance used. It does not sound like listening to loudspeakers in a room; I predominantly perceive a loss (or change) of spatial image due
to the inserted crosstalk.

Third: the acoustic properties of the pathway from loudspeaker
to ears (often captured by head-related transfer functions) are
different for every human. Research on this topic has shown
many times that listening through the 'wrong' ears has a
negative effect on the spatial impression. Without any personalization,
a convincing effect is almost impossible to achieve,
despite claims by various vendors of similar technology.

Just my 2 cents. I like the idea very much, I definately see
a benefit for this plugin (and this specific implementation),
and I know very well that a convincing
'out of head' effect is extremely difficult to realize. So maybe
I just had the wrong expectation...?

[dasdeck]

i try it too. it may not sound like loudpeaker (i don't have proper ones anyways ), but it helps me a lot when using my headphones so i may buy it . i guess i'll have to try the free alternatives too, but they sound very different indeed.

[djex]

Tried the demo with high expectations, but was somewhat dissapointed

I'm sorry to hear that, but this might simply be a case of having wrong expectations. Redline Monitor is strictly intended as a tool and not an effect. You won't be blown away with how 3-dimensional your headphones suddenly sound, and it won't sound like a room either. If that's what you're after you'd probably be better off with one of the "other" spatialization plugins or even (if I may be so bold) a reverb on a room setting.

Redline Monitor's real application is for judging mixes on headphones, and for that you simply need a flat frequency response. Sure you can do mixes on any set of speakers no matter how crappy, but if you can't trust what you're hearing because of frequency problems you're in for a world of trouble the minute your mixes are played back on a different setup.

First of all; the human auditory system totally relies on *changes* in the spectrum (especially above 5 kHz) to estimate the elevation of a sound source.

True, and that's exactly what the Distance control does. It has been suggested somewhere in this thread that the effect is somewhat on the subtle side, so perhaps that's what you're experiencing as well. If more people feel this way I have no problems with exaggerating the effect in a point release--in the current incarnation it is limited on purpose.

It does not sound like listening to loudspeakers in a room at all; I predominantly perceive a loss of spatial image due to the inserted crosstalk.

Again I agree, and that is as intended: it shd sound like loudspeakers in a more or less anechoic room. There is no room simulation of any kind as, again, that would mess with the frequency content too much to be truly useful.

Third: the acoustic properties of the pathway from loudspeaker
to ears (often captured by head-related transfer functions) are
different for every human. Research on this topic has shown
many times that listening through the 'wrong' ears has a
negative effect on the spatial impression. Without any personalization,
a convincing effect is almost impossible to achieve,
despite claims by various vendors of similar technology.

And one more +1 . I wasn't aware of there being a negative effect though, but I do know that the effect will markedly vary from listener to listener. The current version has what we found to be a good "average" curve, but it's possible that it does disagree with your particular pinnae. FWIW a future version will feature some way to adjust to/select from a (relatively large) set of real-world ears (excuse the term), but as you may appreciate that is not a small or trivial thing to achieve. Work on that is well underway, though.

So really thanks for your critical comments, I hope I managed to address some of your concerns and perhaps, just perhaps it might still grow on you. As you already say it is delicate territory we're on here, but rest assured that I listen to and much value your feedback.

Take care,

-- dj!

[Mushy Mushy]

The next question is not intended to be funny, but i have no other way to word it???

Re the real world ears: how will I know what kind of ear I have????

[Gucky]

I for my person like the plug.
I will buy it in the next weeks.
But a little bit more "distance" for the distance parameter would be great.

[djex]

Re the real world ears: how will I know what kind of ear I have????

It's hard not to follow this up with a funny remark but I'll do my best to contain myself.

Short answer: you won't. What I'm intending is to take a set of measurements from a varied set of, well, real-world ears, and then find some good way to select from that set (pun may or may not be intended) by ear. It's still very much work in progress though so I can't be much more specific at this point.

-- dj!

[Mushy Mushy]

Re the real world ears: how will I know what kind of ear I have????

It's hard not to follow this up with a funny remark but I'll do my best to contain myself.

Short answer: you won't. What I'm intending is to take a set of measurements from a varied set of, well, real-world ears, and then find some good way to select from that set (pun may or may not be intended) by ear. It's still very much work in progress though so I can't be much more specific at this point.

-- dj!

ah, sounds promising!

Will it have an adjustable wax level that can be automated????
And perhaps hair also so we can simulate the aging process

[buscemi]

ah, sounds promising!

Will it have an adjustable wax level that can be automated????
And perhaps hair also so we can simulate the aging process

I'm a guitar player who had the prerequisite stupidity of youth years back so a "WHAT??? HUH????" + tinnitus canceler setting would be appreciate.

[Eddie(Soulseekers)]

I'm sorry for asking this question again but does the Redline Monitor get inserted in the Masterbus

[advaya]

I'm sorry for asking this question again but does the Redline Monitor get inserted in the Masterbus

Yeah, that'd be my guess... at the end of the effects chain (if any) on the master bus.

I just gotta remember to turn it OFF before bouncing down.

[dj! (112dB)]

I'm sorry for asking this question again but does the Redline Monitor get inserted in the Masterbus

Yes, the master buss is the place to put it!

I just gotta remember to turn it OFF before bouncing down.

Unless of course you want to create a mix that sounds good on headphones when played back.

-- dj!

[chicken muffin]

it takes your money.

[advaya]

I just gotta remember to turn it OFF before bouncing down.

Unless of course you want to create a mix that sounds good on headphones when played back.

-- dj!

True enough... Though I am usually quite satisfied with how a mix translates to headphones once mixed properly on a good speaker/monitor setup... I cannot say the same for the other way around though!

Nice plugin BTW.