Redline Monitor - how does it work?

[Pigman]

That what I assumed would happen, but nothing.

[spinedoc]

How does this stack up to hphx.dll from the par eq folks. I have used this for years with ok results. Your opinions?

[dj! (112dB)]

How do I get a demo key? I used my email address for the download, waited an hour or two, but nothing. Then emailed your support address last night, and still nothing.

Looks like our email channels are severely skewed--perhaps I unknowingly made decaf this morning but I can't seem to find any support email from you either? Best PM me your email address here and I'll set you up with an evaluation license. Sorry for the trouble.

Oh BTW for those who missed it: we released 1.0.2 last week with some mandatory bugfixes but also skinning support:




A similar skin will also be included with the upcoming Redline Reverb maintenance release.

Take care,

-- dj!

[gabrielconroy]

Hopefully this won't be construed as spam, since it's perhaps not specific to Redline.

I'm trying to get it to work in Cubase SX3 now, ReWired with Reason 4. It shows up as an option, but greyed out (as are all other plug-ins in the Audio -> Plug-ins dropdown). It's selected in the 'VST Instruments' panel. Note I've only just started using Cubase as a mixer, so this could be something obvious that I'm too stupid to notice. I really want to try this out!

[ianfoxfire]

It seems like 90% of the useful part of this plug-in is the Stereo to Mono Blend Feature.
If you have ableton, simply use the built in "Utility" plugin, set it to Stereo, Center C, and Width to somewhere around 25-30%. then Maybe bump up the gain 1db to match Redlines default output.
Otherwise, if someone wants to spend the time doing so, they could add an Eq(HP)+Delay(1-6ms) to get the stage type effect...
Im just not seeing the $100 value in a stereo to mono + delay VST plugin...

Anyways, im glad i ran across redline monitor, i never thought of tuning my headphones, I simply gave up on the thought of recording when headphones where the only option... i would have gladly paid $20-30, but $100.....

Anyways now for the life of the demo (2 mos) im gonna compare the hell out of Redline Monitor and the Ableton Utility Plugin, to see how different my mixes end up with headphones.

[4damind]

Cannot find some usage with this plug-in The most audible effect is the M/S manipulation and the shrinking of the stereoimage. But many people also listen music today on headphones, so it _must_ also sound good on headphones.
If it should also sound good on speakers, you _need_ speakers to compare this. There is no workaround.

Btw. the easiest way (not only for mixing with headphones): the mono switch. If there are problems with phase cancellation or leveling failures, mono can help and it costs nothing

[ianfoxfire]

From further review, I have to say, in comparison to other similar VST's, this one is finely tuned, and I definatly favor it the most..

but honestly, simply adjusting the Stereo to Mono mix on my master outs is just as good.. and much cheaper.

So unless you are trying to replicate a large sound stage, adding minuscule amounts of delays and phase tweaks to replicate an actual room of some sort is kind of silly. I thought the goal is to achieve a flat response and to completely getting rid of any sort of room reverberation and resonation.

[starla*]

i just tried this and like it. but what is the recommendation of the distance knob? turn it off or have it on? i like how it sound a little less in your ear already with 0.1 meter, but im not sure if its a good thing to mess with the frequency.. and when turning to much it sometimes sounded similiar to phase cancellation.
is there a graph that shows the effect on the frequency response when turning the distance knob?

[TOTAL]

I'm sorry for asking this question again but does the Redline Monitor get inserted in the Masterbus

Yes, the master buss is the place to put it!

I just gotta remember to turn it OFF before bouncing down.

Unless of course you want to create a mix that sounds good on headphones when played back.

-- dj!

So where the priority for playback is headphones, would you use it in the mix?

[highkoo]

I'm sorry for asking this question again but does the Redline Monitor get inserted in the Masterbus

Yes, the master buss is the place to put it!

I just gotta remember to turn it OFF before bouncing down.

Unless of course you want to create a mix that sounds good on headphones when played back.

-- dj!

So where the priority for playback is headphones, would you use it in the mix?

i presume that is correct, in theory at least.
im surprised that in this long thread there wasnt more questions about this.
you could theoretically make 'headphone music'.
you could make an alternate 'headphone mix' of your entire album, without too much trouble, correct?
thankfully, i can use my monitors pretty much all the time, so i havent tested any of this out just yet, but it is very interesting.

[TOTAL]

Having tried the Monitor, I can say that it may do a good thing to the mix, to help adapt it to headphones through ab comparisons with and without.


Why without then if it improves the percaption thru cans?

I am very curious what the author himself will say in response to my question.
Q1 Dj!, do you happen to use Redline Monitor as a mastering effect?




Why use it in master bus?
The effect definitely can take away some necessary parts of the sound (maybe if the panorama is too wide?) and add to greater consistency audible thru cans.
Q2 It might be the same as eqing a synth to sound better next to other instruments, here tradeoff of slightly worse speaker performance for better positioning, removing other can specific artefacts?



I'll need time and experients, but till then,

Q3 how are good professional productions made to sound okay thru cans?
There must be some..

[Tangible]

I was interested in making a similar effect.

I have redline monitor and Isone pro on pc, but I wanted to do some mixing on my mac computer and I didn't want to buy a copy just for that...so I tried to come up with something that would give me a similar feel.

The main thing that gives monitor emulation plugs their sound is stereo width, eq curve, and reverb...so if you combine those three, you can create your own monitor effect, with the added bonus of being more customizable:

First you can put on a stereo imager plug and reduce the stereo field from 100% to anywhere between 40 and 80 percent (Mine is at 66%). Second, you can match the eq curve that redline and isone use with nebula, qclone or do it manually with vst analyzer or matching it with the curves in the manuals or just do it by ear.... then finally, you can just add on a room IR reverb (or algorithm), and make it 2 to 20% wet (mine is at 4%, using a small room IR). Once you tweak everything perfectly, save the presets.

It doesn't give you the exact same sound, but it's totally useable, and depending on how you tweak it, it can sound just as good. Actually, after some re-tweaking, I think I got my custom config to actually sound better than Redline Monitor and sound much much closer to my actual monitoring setup. Having good headphones helps, I'm using the AKG K701s.

[TOTAL]

I like such DIY approach.

But what about this sense of center missing in dry mix, which appears after isone? Is it really a result of narrowing the image?

The fx apparently change the spectral response - from what you say, it seems to be an effect of eq'ing and monofying, yes? If I wanted to use elemental audio's fyrium instead of qclone, what kind of noise is the best to feed it to cover the whole spectrum (and make a "generic" curve? White noise?

I have experimentined with setting isone in several places in the master chain, also before and after sonalksis stereo tool. The positioning did not seem to affect the result. I may have not listened for enough detail. I'll do more tests and get back.

[Tangible]

I like such DIY approach.

But what about this sense of center missing in dry mix, which appears after isone? Is it really a result of narrowing the image?

The sound stage is a combination of narrowing the image, eq, and reverb...you need all three for the effect to be convincing. The main problem with headphones, is the left and right channel are completely separated in the ear....so by simply using a plugin that allows you to control stereo width, you make it sound more like monitors. For instance, on your speakers, if you pan something hard right, you can still hear it with both ears, just moreso on the right. So, in order to tune the stereo width, pan something hard right or left, then narrow the stereo field until the balance between what you hear in the right and left ear starts to match that of your monitors. I actually found that the center seemed more accurate with my DIY approach then what I achieved with Redline. For this I used Waves S1 imager also tried the one built in to Studio One, but others should work, I guess results would depend on the plug.

The fx apparently change the spectral response - from what you say, it seems to be an effect of eq'ing and monofying, yes? If I wanted to use elemental audio's fyrium instead of qclone, what kind of noise is the best to feed it to cover the whole spectrum (and make a "generic" curve? White noise?

I think the frequency response helps you to be able to tune into the elevation aspect of frequencies, and helps to give a better representation of the sound you'd get with your speakers. I used Q-clone, but the easiest way to do it with firium, if on PC, is to download VST analyzer, put Isone/Redline on the setting you would usually have it at...with the Room mode turned off, then draw the eq curve with your own eq. Don't be afraid to tune it by ear by listening to reference music, because you might be able to tune it better than the curve that you are tyring to copy.

Also, I think using a IR reverb gives an even realer room sound than these apps, as you can look for an Impulse that sounds just like your room and adjust the wet/dry to taste.....I recommend setting the reverb while listening to something sparse.

[milosh_]

I downloaded the demo an I like it !!
I tried it with M-Audio firewire 410 interface and Beyerdynamic DT-880 headphones.
The sound with monitor plugin became more natural and quite like speakers.
The headphone amp in M-audio FW 410 is not good enough for mix purposes IMO.
It is OK for listening Mastered tracks but when I wanted to mix some tracks in my DAW and leave some headroom on the master as always, the headphone amp was to weak (I suppose to less power for DT-880 PRO which has 250 Ohms of impedance).
What headphone amps do you use ?

cheers

milosh