KVR Audio

Andrew Souter · Post by **Andrew Souter** » Fri Mar 20, 2009 2:48 am

Hi Guys.

Regarding positioning, there is no way in Aether to achieve specific control over "stage positions" of individual instruments directly per se. (but keep reading the rest, as there are some great tricks at the bottom. Wink ) This is something we are considering exploring for future updates/products. Our goal with Aether was to provide a reasonable amount of user control, while at the same time combining parameters where possible to keep things usable and less complicated.

The Space Type Macros are a good example of this. Behind the scenes there are 75 parameters in the alg that are controlled by the Space Type control. We could have opted to expose these controls, and add 75 more knobs to the GUI, but obviously that would be overkill. So, we found an eloquent way to wrap this complexity into a single GUI element, and we took the liberty to have a little fun by using a stylized sketch of these spaces to keep things interesting. The additional 6-9 knobs that control the ER engine control other parts of ER model, and these are NOT part of the 75 parameters that make up the Space type. So in total the ER section of the alg has about 84 parameters internally.

The current Position control is actually similar in concept. It is sort of a macro control that controls several parts of ER model with a single control. Basically we do the following:

1 Each space type has X Y Z dimension Ratios. These vary depending on the Space type. We can perhaps publish this info in the next update of the manual.

2 The ratios multiplied by the current Size setting determine XYZ dimensions in meters.

3 Next we have Position. Position controls two aspects: Source position, and (virtual) Mic position. For both of these we have a Min and Max location for two channels (L and R) for each. We choose these locations based on study of models of acoustic spaces, and sound micing techniques used in real recordings etc. So we have an array of coordinates, each of which was carefully chosen by use to make sense for the given Space Type:

a) Source Position Min L defined by XYZ coordinates.
b) Source Position Max L defined by XYZ coordinates.

c) Source Position Min R defined by XYZ coordinates.
d) Source Position Max R defined by XYZ coordinates.

e) Mic Position Min L defined by XYZ coordinates.
f) Mic Position Max L defined by XYZ coordinates.

g) Mic Position Min R defined by XYZ coordinates.
h) Mic Position Max R defined by XYZ coordinates.

The Position Control creates a path between all these points. When the Position control on the GUI is at the Min or Max settings you end up with the one of the points we have defined in the profile for the given Space Type. If it is somewhere in the middle, all of these point positions are interpolated to give a smooth path from the possible extremes.

Thus the positioning scheme is quite well thought out and designed, but we do not allow you to say place the Cello stage left, and the Flute stage right directly per se. Instead we choose a range of useful parameters and allow you to "morph around" inside this 3D parameter space with a single control. And we have chosen parameter bounds for you that make sense for the given space type.

Thoughts? Comments?

Also, one thing to note, which we do elsewhere already but we will say again, one powerful things to do with Aether is to turn OFF the LR engine and insert an instance on each track you are working with. Then insert an instance on a Send/Aux/Bus and only use the LR engine. This will not use a lot of CPU power BTW, b/c bypassed sections do not process on the CPU (this is by design). If you do things this way, you can select a desired space type (maybe one of the Halls for symphonic material) and use the same ER settings for all audio tracks, EXCEPT, change position for each. And since all tracks share the same LR diffuse engine, the result will be quite close to what you are after-- i.e. You will have all tracks feel like they are in the same room, but each coming from a slightly different location in this room.

Andrew Souter · Post by **Andrew Souter** » Fri Mar 20, 2009 5:09 am

I should also note that the Cross and Width controls also have an important role in the pursuit of positioning sources in virtual space. If you pan your signals before they enter Aether this L-R position can be retained, expanded, collapsed, or reversed using the cross and width controls. Please see the PDF manual section titled "Understanding Cross and Width".

http://www.2caudio.com/products/aether/ ... Manual.pdf

TripACT · Post by **TripACT** » Fri Mar 20, 2009 6:57 pm

I want to say one thing about this plugin.

It looks like a cool reverb and seems it has really great potential! Might demo it myself as well!

Too bad the GUI is kidna ugly. Please dont get offended, but the GUI is really bad and keeps away lotsa musician from using this plugin for no reason.
I see you decided to keep that GUI although so many people in here gave their opinion on it, why wont you change it? I'd really like to know why.
Just hire somebody to make a new pro skin for this plugin already, it really deserves a better skining.

I really think this is something you should consider...

D.Wako · Post by **D.Wako** » Fri Mar 20, 2009 7:26 pm

I could use an other GUI to. It is a bit of a turn off me too. Maybe more than a little bit.. And i hope you don't take offence either.

Thanks for all the valuable info, Andrew.

rouge · Post by **rouge** » Fri Mar 20, 2009 9:29 pm

TripACT wrote:I want to say one thing about this plugin.

It looks like a cool reverb and seems it has really great potential! Might demo it myself as well!

Too bad the GUI is kidna ugly. Please dont get offended, but the GUI is really bad and keeps away lotsa musician from using this plugin for no reason.
I see you decided to keep that GUI although so many people in here gave their opinion on it, why wont you change it? I'd really like to know why.
Just hire somebody to make a new pro skin for this plugin already, it really deserves a better skining.

I really think this is something you should consider...

I personally love it

Andrew Souter · Post by **Andrew Souter** » Sat Mar 21, 2009 2:15 am

TripACT wrote: I see you decided to keep that GUI although so many people in here gave their opinion on it, why wont you change it? I'd really like to know why.
Just hire somebody to make a new pro skin for this plugin already, it really deserves a better skining.

I really think this is something you should consider...

I'm not sure I follow you on this? When there was a discussion here regarding the pre-release skin back in Dec/Jan the two main complaints were color, and size. We have addressed both of those (change skin to small on the info page to see small version) and if you read the original thread, you will find me being very active in listening to people's opinion on the matter. And you will find a point where I posted screen shots of something close to the final 1.0 skin. And the feedback at that point was overwhelmingly positive. We asked many, many people specifically if they were happy with the layout and general design etc. And most everyone said yes.

And generally speaking in spending 30min going through various threads here all over the forum, I find people have very diverse oppinions on pretty much every plug-in under the sun. "GUI issues are a perennial point of disagreement" as one poster put in the original thread, and I guess I must agree. I sometimes wonder when people find time to actually make music.

We will likely offer additional skins shortly, but we generally think functionality issues should take priority at this point--meaning we would rather invest time into making new features and developing additional products etc.

If you care to summarize your specific ideas I will listen to them and consider them along with all the other feedback we receive. Of course if there was a clear consensus we would certainly consider the ideas.

contrary · Post by **contrary** » Sat Mar 21, 2009 4:51 am

The grouping of the controls is quite logical , and at least it's not another GD retro rehash of some hardware interface . This sounds quite good , but already having AAR and CSR makes pulling the trigger at it's present $$$$ pretty much a "never gonna happen " proposition .

Still , good job and kudos from a reverb fan !!.

alexfalcao · Post by **alexfalcao** » Sat Mar 28, 2009 6:44 pm

How is Aether on CPU?

Alex.

Jay-Producer · Post by **Jay-Producer** » Mon Mar 30, 2009 5:18 am

When is this going to be PPC compatible?

getthere · Post by **getthere** » Mon Mar 30, 2009 5:49 am

I worry about the sound more than the gui, personally, but this is one I'm looking at right now.

Andrew Souter · Post by **Andrew Souter** » Mon Mar 30, 2009 1:10 pm

CPU usage is highly optimized as compared to the quality of the algorithm. I can get just over 100 instances on 2008 model 8 Core Mac Pro (8* 2.8 ) (44.1 session, 1024 buffer). I can get approximately 40 instances on a first generation (2006?) 4 core Mac Pro (2.66). I recommend downloading and trying the demo on your particular machine to see how it performs (though the demo does not allow multiple instances).

We are unlikely to support PPC. We realize that many people still use this platform but we think we are at the very tail end of this phase, and the release of the new Nehalem Macs a few weeks ago, and the upcoming release of Snow Leopard will make this more clear. This decision has cost us some short term Mac sales I am quite sure, but it is a short term, 6 month sacrifice that we have made in order to be better positioned for the future. PPC is dead in Apple's eyes, as far as I can tell (from various public web forums etc), so we do best to focus on increasing and optimizing our Intel code. We really do use a lot of SSE/Asembly in our code and it takes a good deal of focus to really excel at these kind of optimizations. As a new company it is an advantage for us to be able to start with a clean slate and not worry about supporting legacy platforms. Our customers will benefit strongly from this in the long term, though, admittedly we do isolate some potential customers in the short term. The only way we might consider PPC is if someone, (i.e. a potential customer) organized a (large-ish) group of people who were all interested in purchasing for PPC.

We are also considering extending the intro offer pricing a little longer in order to give PPC users time to update their systems. Before I get flamed, I am NOT suggesting that people go out and buy a new computer just to use our plugin. What I am saying, is that we have heard from many, many people that they were holding out on PPC waiting for this latest generation of intel machines to make the switch. A lot of people are doing that now, or will be in the next few months. (I myself was one of them in fact. I was on a Quad G5 until two weeks ago. Now I opted to get a deal on a 2008 model 8 * 2.8.) In consideration of this we may extend the intro price until June 01, to give as many people as possible a chance to participate in the intro pricing. Thoughts?

Lotuzia · Post by **Lotuzia** » Mon Mar 30, 2009 1:41 pm

+1 on extending the intro offer price. It will make the following questions answers less urgent than tonite

Unfortunately it cant be reselled afaik.

Very few details on this on Aether page itself. And not much more on Galbanum's shop page.(just saw that no product can be reselled, and the whole stuff merely refers to their waveform add-ons stuff for synths, making it almost restricting for the use of a reverb unit .......)

Not a single detail either on the protection scheme, as well as important questions as : can it be installed on several comps, aso.

Or did I miss them ??????

In case someone can shed some light on this ........

LtZ

mellotronaut · Post by **mellotronaut** » Mon Mar 30, 2009 2:17 pm

additional question:

i use pc and mac. Does a license include both platforms?

Gymnopedies · Post by **Gymnopedies** » Mon Mar 30, 2009 2:26 pm

God I would love to have this. Demo'ed it and it's just beautiful!

Did somebody say GROUPBUY?
I'm serious by the way!

kmonkey · Post by **kmonkey** » Mon Mar 30, 2009 2:30 pm

This is really great reverb...

2C-Aether Reverb