Redline Reverb!

[lavoll]

i have r66 on my old daw. i like it lots, but it behaved strangely too often to be allowed into any serious sessions. but i am testing the demo of this now, and will definately buy it if it behaves well

[dj! (112dB)]

i have r66 on my old daw. i like it lots, but it behaved strangely too often to be allowed into any serious sessions. but i am testing the demo of this now, and will definately buy it if it behaves well

Let me just jump in and say that, shd you encounter any bugs, please let us know and we'll get on it right away. Beta testing didn't reveal any issues but even so it's almost impossible to guarantee that a piece of software works 100% on all setups--but any bugs that are reported to us will be fixed ASAP!

-- dj!

[ObsoleteAcc99]

Yep, i'm the first (and maybe only) one that is going to throw the negativity here.

Back on 29th march in another reverb topic i wrote this:

geez those redline reverb demos sound god AWFUL. I had high hopes for that one. I sincerely hope redline aren't intending those demos to be a selling point whatsoever.
listen to the first drumloop, how horribly metallic and grainy the reverb is. A shit reverb always falls apart on drums

then...

OMG even the vocal demo's sound awful (metallic to name a few problems). i think this is the worst payware reverb i have *ever* heard!


Now, going by the AUDIO DEMOS, i still stand by my word. Yet of course i had to try it for myself. So i have been playing with the demo quite extensively.

Well, it's not the worse reverb in the world, but still close to being the worst payware one...

I am reading these posts and thinking over and over again these people can't be serious???

I understand about BManic saying sometimes a bit less density can help fit it into the mix, but, this is just BEYOND grain. This has the worst late reflections of any reverb i HAVE ever heard, ever (besides maybe ratshack ) and falls apart on any percussive material especially at larger room sizes. it has the inability of ANY smoothness whatsoever, and yet, it can sound very thick, i didn't expect that after what bmanic says, but it can sound thick, but it's just awful awful quality. The echos are so pronounced that it sounds like a washed out delay and really, to call this grainy isn't fair... it's actually created a new genre of grain. it's save somewhat by it's useful early reflection section but... man....this is bad overall. I spent so long tweaking it and i just couldn't get the thing's late relfections to sound good on anything.

[djanthonyw]

tozz, which reverb do you prefer?

[ObsoleteAcc99]

over redline? space designer for one, and i'm talking about it's synthesized parts too, not just the impulse section.

I am not huge on CSR at all, although i think it SLIGHTLY (mind you that's not a compliment) edges this one out overall for ultimate usability.

Anwida's spazio absolutely destroys this, but is pc only and i am talking about late reflections here only, anwida is made for long smooth lush tails, but i meant for that ability there is no comparison.

As an overall reverb I am going to have to say at this point, i am using space designer and breverb almost exlusively. Fusion field gets some use too.
AAR might be added to the mix. I have demoes this one many times and to be honest, the redline is not even in the same league, it's silly to compare them. I have heard free reverbs better then redline. Let me add, the aether one is brilliant, but I am not buying it over choice that I like a reverb to be easily accessible, and no pun intended, but with a non convoluted layout, and that one is just to busy and TOO tweakable for me, sure it can sound great, but it needs alot of work to get there, work i couldn't be bothered putting in.

so, breverb, space designer, and fusion field (obviously i only use fusion field for long lush tails). That's it. Oh and i'll probably buy altiverb at some point and aar, to have a great overall mix of convolution and synthesized. I think for the actual impulses included, altiverb has the ultimate library.

Oh, i used to think an "average" middle ground but useful reverb was wave arts masterverb. Alot of people raved, but i never found it anything special. To put it in perspective, i think THAT is MUCH better than this one. This really is so grainy i mean it's not a bit of grain, it's just unbelievable how UNsmooth it is and i just can't understand how anyone could use it for anything other than a special effect. I guess I'm in the minority.

[Klemperer]

Well as I just started to test it (and own not a single one you mention, Breverb, space designer, and from Anwida only the freebie, wave arts and so on, or could afford Altiverb) this is a highly appreciated post.
I am convinced that reverbs are often a matter of taste, and not only of having golden ears or not having them (or having lost them ). So bManic likes the plugin much, you don't like it, all sides with opinions for the rest to use in the demo time. That's what makes KVR great for me.
Meanwhile I am still asking myself why Europeans have to pay 25% more than americans for 112dB plugins.
(Maybe because VAT is included, but that would still around mean 10% more?) No need to answer here, if you don't want, dj!, as I sent you a support mail . It's just not common, so I ask.

[dj! (112dB)]

Well as I just started to test it (and own not a single one you mention, Breverb, space designer, and from Anwida only the freebie, wave arts and so on, or could afford Altiverb) this is a highly appreciated post.
I am convinced that reverbs are often a matter of taste, and not only of having golden ears or not having them (or having lost them ). So bManic likes the plugin much, you don't like it, all sides with opinions for the rest to use in the demo time. That's what makes KVR great for me.

Agree 100%. Of course I'm sorry to hear that Redline Reverb does nothing for ttoz, but well... that's just the way it is. Tastes differ vastly, and apparently what's on offer is not what (s)he is looking for in a reverb.

Meanwhile I am still asking myself why Europeans have to pay 25% more than americans for 112dB plugins. (Maybe because VAT is included, but that would still around mean 10% more?) No need to answer here, if you don't want, dj!, as I sent you a support mail . It's just not common, so I ask.

I perfectly understand your concerns so let me explain.

We handle different prices for buyers inside/outside the EU because 112dB is based in Europe (the Netherlands, to be specific) and we have to pay 19% VAT on sales originating from within the EU. So essentially you're paying the same $99 plus 19% VAT, which makes the net price $99 + 19% = $119 or €91. So indeed currently that works out at 8% more, but the exchange rate has been fluctuating a lot and we simply want to offer a fixed price in the 'local' currency so people know what they're paying. Adjusting our prices whenever the exchange rate goes up or down would only serve to create huge confusion.

And I know it's a non-argument to say "we're not the only one doing this", but did you ever notice that MOTU DP6 costs $495 in the US while it sets you back €425 (which is more like $540) here in Europe? Or that a MacPro is €2299 ($2900) here but only $2499 in the US? (And they're manufactured in China so that's definitely not it.)

The fact is that Europe is an expensive market to live in, and I don't like the negative side effects from that any more than you do. We'd much rather set a single price and save ourselves the hassle of having to maintain two separate online stores, etc etc, but it's hard enough trying to make a living from selling audio software as it is. Forfeiting 19% of the revenue from the EU is a luxury option we unfortunately don't have.

Hope you understand our position.

-- dj!

[Klemperer]

Yes I understand this. Thanks much for the explanation, and you can just delete the support question I wrote to your mail-address from me now . I just didn't understand it, and concerning taxes - quite different to many others I prefer living in countries where the poor are not tooooo poor - and this is done, at least now, with taxes in parts. I just didn't know if it had to do with VAT

[AdeVanEx]

i have r66 on my old daw. i like it lots, but it behaved strangely too often to be allowed into any serious sessions. but i am testing the demo of this now, and will definately buy it if it behaves well

Let me just jump in and say that, shd you encounter any bugs, please let us know and we'll get on it right away. Beta testing didn't reveal any issues but even so it's almost impossible to guarantee that a piece of software works 100% on all setups--but any bugs that are reported to us will be fixed ASAP!

-- dj!

When selecting the next preset with the arrows it doesn't always follow your list and skips to a different preset randomly. Is this correct?
Thanks
Ade

[bduffy]

Well as I just started to test it (and own not a single one you mention, Breverb, space designer, and from Anwida only the freebie, wave arts and so on, or could afford Altiverb) this is a highly appreciated post.
I am convinced that reverbs are often a matter of taste, and not only of having golden ears or not having them (or having lost them ). So bManic likes the plugin much, you don't like it, all sides with opinions for the rest to use in the demo time. That's what makes KVR great for me.

Agree 100%. Of course I'm sorry to hear that Redline Reverb does nothing for ttoz, but well... that's just the way it is. Tastes differ vastly, and apparently what's on offer is not what (s)he is looking for in a reverb.

Meanwhile I am still asking myself why Europeans have to pay 25% more than americans for 112dB plugins. (Maybe because VAT is included, but that would still around mean 10% more?) No need to answer here, if you don't want, dj!, as I sent you a support mail . It's just not common, so I ask.

I perfectly understand your concerns so let me explain.

We handle different prices for buyers inside/outside the EU because 112dB is based in Europe (the Netherlands, to be specific) and we have to pay 19% VAT on sales originating from within the EU. So essentially you're paying the same $99 plus 19% VAT, which makes the net price $99 + 19% = $119 or €91. So indeed currently that works out at 8% more, but the exchange rate has been fluctuating a lot and we simply want to offer a fixed price in the 'local' currency so people know what they're paying. Adjusting our prices whenever the exchange rate goes up or down would only serve to create huge confusion.

And I know it's a non-argument to say "we're not the only one doing this", but did you ever notice that MOTU DP6 costs $495 in the US while it sets you back €425 (which is more like $540) here in Europe? Or that a MacPro is €2299 ($2900) here but only $2499 in the US? (And they're manufactured in China so that's definitely not it.)

The fact is that Europe is an expensive market to live in, and I don't like the negative side effects from that any more than you do. We'd much rather set a single price and save ourselves the hassle of having to maintain two separate online stores, etc etc, but it's hard enough trying to make a living from selling audio software as it is. Forfeiting 19% of the revenue from the EU is a luxury option we unfortunately don't have.

Hope you understand our position.

-- dj!

God. Isn't the EU just the greatest thing ever?

[dj! (112dB)]

When selecting the next preset with the arrows it doesn't always follow your list and skips to a different preset randomly. Is this correct?

Hmmm... in a sense this behavior is correct. What happens is that the arrow buttons follow the order in which the program are stored (and visible to VST hosts, for example) whereas the popup lists are categorized and sorted alphabetically--so in an entirely different order.

So no, this is not a bug as such but yes, perhaps somewhat confusing. I'll think of smt to make this more in line with what one would expect. In the next maintenance release!

Thanks for the comment,

-- dj!

[dj! (112dB)]

God. Isn't the EU just the greatest thing ever?

Yessss... it's hard NOT to love it.

-- dj!

[Sequent]

My only comment regarding pricing is that I'm sorry that things don't always work out to a certain group's advantage. On this side, I have had the opposite occasion where I'm paying more for things that I want to get from the EU. Things that because of that are prohibitively expensive to get. Maybe in the future as the world continues to grow smaller these kinds of issues will be addressed by the global financial community in such a way that will be more fair across the board for everyone.

I think there are places where it gets even worse. Thinking of Australia... aren't you folks always stuck paying some pretty high prices for things?

Which segues me back towards ttoz's post...

Such a passionate post makes me want to go back and re-evaluate my own impressions. To be sure, in my case, I only had the chance to just briefly play with the demo last night. But my first impression and gut reaction was very favorable. I posted a quick piece on my MySpace page that was done using only the Redline and have been getting some rave comments and messages with people saying what a fabulous reverb.

I'm not yet sure about the PCM91 comparison and I'm not in a position to do a comparison of the 300/480L, etc. units, but my initial impression is that it does remind me very much of the PCM70. For me, that's a good thing because a virtual PCM70 (or something akin to that) is exactly what I've been looking for. So, a bit of graininess and other anomalies that might go along with that are perfectly fine with me - because that's the character I'm interested in. Right now I'm not saying that graininess is or isn't there; I would have to do a more detailed test and I know some people have said it's grainy (or VERY grainy) and others have said it's very smooth. So I want to make sure it isn't just me and not being familiar enough with the programming before I make any decisions. But I WILL say that imo, it's very musical and it certainly has that elusive 'magic' quality that I haven't always found in virtual verbs.

Then there is also the thought that absolute spit-spot clarity is not always the goal either. I mean, I know from my own experience that there are certain pieces of gear that I still love and use because even though they don't at all look good on paper and by all accounts should be total rubbish, yet there is that something there that makes them special and very musical - for lack of a better word. Thinking of stuff like the old Mirage sampler, and even stuff like the TB303, etc.

But that's why we have these various choices and various ways of applying these tools. There's something out there for everybody and if this doesn't fit in with your music, then there will be something else out there that will.

Too, that's why a lot of people usually have at least two or three variants of things in their toolkits. So you have that convolution verb for one thing, and then an ultra clean algo verb for other stuff, and then maybe something downright dirty and lousy but that might be perfect for other stuff.

I'm not defining the Redline as either one or the other. Everyone has to make their own decision, and the generous demo period certainly affords all of us a perfect opportunity to do just that.

Given ttoz's post, I'm going to rethink my needs and also I'm going to revisit the other gb going on now, as well as look at what I already have. It may be that I don't need anything at all, but I think I'm definitely sold on the Redline (bad or good), and it's going on my to-get list for sure.

Final thought for me is that that's the beauty of virtual stuff - and some things like Breverb and CSR, even if they are expensive (Aether too at its regular price)... they are still not as expensive as things were in the past. Compared to what you used to have to pay for a comparable piece of hardware (and still do), you can afford to get two or three things in the virtual world. I'm not about to complain about that!

[fceramic]

Wow ttoz must have really different ears, i think this verb sounds like pure silk. Not perfect for drum plates, but great for anything else. For me this is smooth, the opposite of grainy.
I find AAR to sound really synthetic and trancy. Sounds like noise added to the sound source.
Been testing it all night with the ableton instruments and am amazed by the quality. Sometimes I had to turn it off just to check if it was the instrument itself that sounded so warm and smooth, and it changed completely.

[ObsoleteAcc99]

Like i said drums give a bad reverb away. That's just "my" belief. The thing that gets me though, is that almost any reverb can be made to sound good on a vocal, and this is where this one feel apart imo too. It leaves a completely metal taste in my mouth. But, as we all know, ears and tastes are very different.!

THAT SAID:


I won't say anything more negative cause i have said my opinion, and i want to take a moment to thank 112's supremely professional way of dealing with my criticism, and actually in general on the boards and I wish them every success. And i do mean that! Cheers!