Saturation plugin

[SWAN808]

Thanks for the suggestions all. Unfornutately those plugins are all far to agressive or I hate to say it unsophisticated than the Reviver. Reviver is very subtle and you can drive it almost full with very little noticeable distortion. It just smoothly and alias free saturates the sound. Its quite expensive sounding (and costing...?!). I have been demoing Sonnox Inflator and it is close enough - although for bringing out punch - Reviver wins due to the fact you can select purely 3rd order harmonics...I have been really surprised by the level of impact 3rd order can give...far exceeds the use of compression for punch on Bassdrums in my use.

[metrosonic]

Give URS Saturation and SPL TwinTube a go. Each have their place but much like Sonnox Inflator you need to make sure you don't overcook it!

J

http://leftside-wobble.blogspot.com/

[S-N-S]

psp vintage warmer might be a little usefull too

[cyberworm]

psp vintage warmer might be a little usefull too

It one of best in my mind.

[Cooker]

Hi Swan,

Just wanted to make sure that you were aware that the Mac .zip collection of all of my free programs are up and ready for you to download!

http://cdsoundmaster.com/Mac_PC_CDSoundMaster_Free1.zip

Please give them a try and let me know how you like the sound.

Thanks!
Michael

Hi yes thanks Michael - I did see that. Ironically I am just working on setting up a Windows partition on my Mac

Will get round to trying them shortly. While I have you here I wanted to ask something:

I am also interested in the VIntage Tube collection - however frankly - I dont need the amount of options you provide. Just a small bunch of good sounding programs. Is there any way you would put together a Vintage Tube LE package as they are also quite expensive? Perhaps it might generate other sales also...

I really liked that vintage tube le idea of yours

Michael: That library is also really big for me as even I'm still getting to know the free ones you provided us a LE version and later an upgrade to the full would be very very pocket friendly too (actually this could be great for all your librarys)

SWAN808: Can you post an audio example? I'm very curious about what that plug-in does and if I'll like it and can imitate it (like with ozones multiband saturation part). A 0%,50%,100% example would be great.

[brok landers]

Thanks for the suggestions all. Unfornutately those plugins are all far to agressive or I hate to say it unsophisticated than the Reviver. Reviver is very subtle and you can drive it almost full with very little noticeable distortion. It just smoothly and alias free saturates the sound.>snip<

that's wat i was always trying to get into peoples head, with no success, they still think vintage warmer or the ohmforce plugs are saturators(in the sense of what "saturation" meant to be back then):
initially saturation did not mean that you can hear audible distortion.
a good saturation added the hamonics in a way that you we're not precieving the saturation as distortion at all ... it just "somehow" coloured the sound and made it more upfront sounding ... i've yet to see a plugin that really covers that way of applying saturation, most of them just sound way too distorted when applied to the needed ammount, compared to analog devices that provided this ... i.e. a very good tape machine like a rare two inch tube studer ...

[djanthonyw]

Saturation plugin

I know its not popular around here

Im looking to find a PC version

doesnt impart so much punch and seems to make to signal warmer in a mushy way....

You mean something like this?

[spinedoc]

Yeah, I would buy a scaled back collection from tube bender as well. Maybe put some LE bundles out for 19.95?

[PromisedLand]

I'm also interested in audio examples. I took a look at the demo installer, but they have their own license manager daemon in it and I really don't want to install anything like this just for a demo version.

[mangel1234]

Swan, Cooker, Spinedoc,

There are fully working FREE programs from each of my libraries for you to use.

There will not specifically be LE versions of individual libraries for less. But, there will be good options for you.

The current going price for PSP Vintage Warmer is $149. The current going price for the Vintage Tube Collection is $59. Anyone that purchases a single library of mine gets an automatic discount.

Comparing PSP V.W. to 1/4th of the Retro Analog Studio Suite in options and in sound quality alone should make the $39 price tag as affordable and within reach as I can imagine.

The Vintage Tube Collection, at $59 ($49 previous customers), is roughly 1/2 the cost of one of the actual tubes within the collection. Add to that creating an original hardware device to properly present, gain stage, and sample all of the actual tubes, and again I can't imagine charging less for an LE version alone. There are FREE programs from the VTC that are perfectly working and real harmonics, not decent fabricated ones. Truly, I cannot afford to provide a collection without the minimal cost already in place.

Tube Bender EQ is not a massive collection; it is a very complex diligent sampling process that I think is my favorite DAW eq to date. Honestly, to take what would be a $199 eq from any competitor and provide anything less for a price that suggests it isn't worth the time and research invested just doesn't make the concept possible to pursue, which would make it impossible for me to invest in bringing these to Nebula.

I hope this makes sense specifically regarding LE versions of individual libraries that are already giving a lot more, at better quality, for a lot less than would come from a competitor. This is a requirement to provide even the possibility of considering spending the hundreds of hours that go into the process.

Here's the good news regarding LE and super cheap reduced price versions of things:

There are going to be combo-packs when the separate combo's are complete, and these will qualify customers for discounts as well. An example of this is that the Vintage Tubes Series is not fully complete yet. There is the Vintage Tube Collection, the Tube Bender EQ, and there are more libraries to complete this collection.

There will always be very affordable combination prices for new libraries combined with earlier libraries. There will also be less expensive combo-packs with fewer programs from multiple libraries, which is like getting a variety of LE's even further reduced, in combination with relevant programs combined.

In addition, there will be a way to get individual programs. This is good for those who want very specific things, don't have the $ for full collections, but also helps me to protect the value of what has gone into the libraries and still give other options.

I hope this makes sense and I do hope you spend some time with all of the free programs. They are for you to enjoy and to use in your projects and I think they will give you a feel for where your budget is best spent. I really appreciate the interest and hope to keep things increasingly more exciting for the Nebula user base!

Many Blessings!
Michael

[TripACT]

May i suggest an interesting option...not quite sure if it is legal but,
I remember that there's an option to load custom IRs in Tritone Digital's ColorTone plugin. Maybe you could capture an Impulse Response of reviver coloring and apply those IRs within ColorTone plugin...Not sure if in LTI convoultion world you could capture it perfectly and again - whether it is legal or not is left for your to check (email the company and ask them for their permission to do so) but it might be a nice direction.
I do remember i saw lots of IRs of tubes and so on.

"..ColorTone-Pro is a Tone Box which simulates the signal path of analog devices through the use of convolution and various proprietary non-linear processes. ColorTone-Pro is designed to provide analog-like character and flavor to the modern digital audio workstation.

ColorTone-Pro comes with a collection of classic studio models, including samples from world-class tape machines, EQs and mixing consoles.

ColorTone-Pro also allows you to load your own samples (instructions for sampling your own equipment are included) and provides you with our custom-coded Warmth algorithm to enhance the signal-path with extra harmonic goodness.

Additionally, ColorTone-Pro allows you to multiply the color of the selected circuit, increasing the color from the standard character to several times the original color..."

[Cooker]

mangel1234: Very good news about the combo packs!! the LE idea that I had in mind was something very similar to the options you will provide.

Just to mention, specially after trying the free lib.s you sampled I always thought they were very good for the price. Only problem is even though pricing is great, it still doesn't make it easy for some of us to buy them without a little saving Your solution will make things easyer

Also a small request if its ok; Since you are a mastering engineer and currently have alot of experience with sampling tubes, I had an idea that I was thinking about but always forgot to ask you.

I'm a little into ITB mastering. One of the things I can't get with plug-ins I tryed is to have sweet but still open sounding highs with loud masters (of course I'm talking in a professional matter, semi-pro solutions are somewhat already avalible with the plug-in world). After trying whatever avalible, I finally got convinced that this isn't truly possible without tube based hardware (my guess is specially compressors). When I tryed nebula, the free tubes as the effect of what they did gave me some hope that this could actually be possible.

I was wondering if you could make an combo specificly for this matter to your mastering or tube library? I'm just guessing since I don't have experience with hardware in mastering, but what I had in mind was tube presets that are ment to be somewhere in the near end of the mastering chain.

[mangel1234]

Hi Cooker,

I appreciate what you have to say. I like what you are requesting regarding the sweetening of the high frequencies and tailoring a package from what I develop. I will have to give this some thought. I really care a great deal about people not just getting another 'fill in the blank' when I make something. I want every eq or tube or anything that put time into to be something that is ear-opening and empowering for a mix or master.

There are a few combinations that exist now in the Neb. libraries that I believe can help with this sound you are after. First, the high shelf from the Mastering Suite, which is a special filtering design that I made based on how I go about achieving this sound you are talking about. Next is a few specific tubes in the Vintage Tube Collection. Some settings and actual tubes are more geared towards punchiness and others towards smooth warm drive, and still others towards that glossy, silky sound that is more complex than descriptives seem to do justice for. These and a couple of other things. There are several preamp and eq settings in "Retro" that are helpful with this as well.

When I created the hardware unit, The Source + Plus, it was largely for the purpose you are requesting. There is a combination of events that happen that will always elude people trying to match certain masters when working ITB. I don't think it is impossible, but I do think that every software plug-in I've heard and liked has a certain threshold which beyond that, it sounds fake. I like that this isn't as much an issue with Nebula. With Neb- once you cross it's threshold you are out of bounds regarding intended parameters and it stops working! But, within its capabilities it does not ever sound fake when done right.

With the right high end tube hardware, you can fine tune the sound directly towards the mix you are recording, adding just the right amount of harmonics, frequency, and leveling-type limiting. This type of effect 'grows' the signal. It does not chop off your transient peaks, but makes the whole mix bigger, broader, louder, but no timing change and no fake compression effect. EQ'ing during or after this process or even before- all allows for a completely unique signature sound. Some of this exists in the Tube Bender as well, and can REALLY get the right mix glue along the way.

1. EQ before compressing/limiting/widening/saturating etc. Let's say you do whatever you deem necessary to get a good sounding mix that is together and unified. When getting to the Master, the only way to open up the right amount of dynamic space and fix things without taking away what makes them sound blended together is to start by doing the surgical eq first before any mastering limiting compressing etc. This is why I get concerned when I hear too many prefab preset lists for the 'mastering chain' when mixing a song down. I really don't think you should try to listen for a cohesive mixdown and slam it for a big final mix/premaster if there is any intention of doing a real separate mastering. Perhaps test mixes and premaster tests can use a few favorite chains at master mixdown, but it is so important for focus at that stage to be on bringing the mix elements together. NOT overdoing it at that point is the promise for a great final result.

So, we take the mix and sweep from low to high with a narrow band eq and a brickwall limiter at the end of the chain for monitoring to protect from overloads. When certain frequencies jump way out and especially if they resonate on a good sounding eq, these are potential frequencies that are stealing some of your impact volume and mix energy. Make sure and A/B listen to each stage of changes you make- always leave an opening to do less or nothing at all. Usually you will find several decibels more room in the mix after doing this, and the balance is almost always better with the same mix than it was before this stage. To help with this, I recommend doing comparitive listening on your mastering monitors. Pick 3-5 songs in the genre you are working- choose mixes that are immediately your favorite- go for what is pleasant to your ears not what you think is supposed to be- what you like. It is helpful for modern releases in comp listening- to reduce the level -5dB or so to make sure you are hearing a great mix/master comp and not just a loud one!

2. If the sweetening effect in the highs didn't happen in the mixing stage at all- there are 2 ways to eq for broader "Q" sweetening- before and after comp/limiting. The tubes have a HUGE impact on bringing this sound. Tape can as well Once the high end sounds as you wish, you can tailor whatever comp and/or limiting to the mix. You may want to do deep threshold or parallel mixing to achieve the big effect without losing the right highs. You may want to do a little compression and then add a little sparkle before master limiter.

I will continue to give this some thought and perhaps this is something to consider for a follow-up on the Producer's Pack to address specific mastering tasks. I know it is supposed to be taboo to generalize certain things as important and specialized as the mastering process, but there are things that are done very routinely in specific problem solving scenarios. Sometimes the simpler and more straight forward the tools the better the decision and result.

Thanks for taking the time to mention that!
-M.

mangel1234: Very good news about the combo packs!! the LE idea that I had in mind was something very similar to the options you will provide.

Just to mention, specially after trying the free lib.s you sampled I always thought they were very good for the price. Only problem is even though pricing is great, it still doesn't make it easy for some of us to buy them without a little saving Your solution will make things easyer

Also a small request if its ok; Since you are a mastering engineer and currently have alot of experience with sampling tubes, I had an idea that I was thinking about but always forgot to ask you.

I'm a little into ITB mastering. One of the things I can't get with plug-ins I tryed is to have sweet but still open sounding highs with loud masters (of course I'm talking in a professional matter, semi-pro solutions are somewhat already avalible with the plug-in world). After trying whatever avalible, I finally got convinced that this isn't truly possible without tube based hardware (my guess is specially compressors). When I tryed nebula, the free tubes as the effect of what they did gave me some hope that this could actually be possible.

I was wondering if you could make an combo specificly for this matter to your mastering or tube library? I'm just guessing since I don't have experience with hardware in mastering, but what I had in mind was tube presets that are ment to be somewhere in the near end of the mastering chain.

[AKJ]

Thanks for the suggestions all. Unfornutately those plugins are all far to agressive or I hate to say it unsophisticated than the Reviver. Reviver is very subtle and you can drive it almost full with very little noticeable distortion. It just smoothly and alias free saturates the sound.>snip<

that's wat i was always trying to get into peoples head, with no success, they still think vintage warmer or the ohmforce plugs are saturators(in the sense of what "saturation" meant to be back then):
initially saturation did not mean that you can hear audible distortion.
a good saturation added the hamonics in a way that you we're not precieving the saturation as distortion at all ... it just "somehow" coloured the sound and made it more upfront sounding ... i've yet to see a plugin that really covers that way of applying saturation, most of them just sound way too distorted when applied to the needed ammount, compared to analog devices that provided this ... i.e. a very good tape machine like a rare two inch tube studer ...

I suggest voxengo warmifier then, It can get very nice subtle results.
My personal tool of choice, however, for the described purpose is Dominion. It's a transient shaper combined with a saturator and with the right setting it's unbeatable - and free!

[Cooker]

Hi Cooker,

I appreciate what you have to say. I like what you are requesting regarding the sweetening of the high frequencies and tailoring a package from what I develop. I will have to give this some thought. I really care a great deal about people not just getting another 'fill in the blank' when I make something. I want every eq or tube or anything that put time into to be something that is ear-opening and empowering for a mix or master.

There are a few combinations that exist now in the Neb. libraries that I believe can help with this sound you are after. First, the high shelf from the Mastering Suite, which is a special filtering design that I made based on how I go about achieving this sound you are talking about. Next is a few specific tubes in the Vintage Tube Collection. Some settings and actual tubes are more geared towards punchiness and others towards smooth warm drive, and still others towards that glossy, silky sound that is more complex than descriptives seem to do justice for. These and a couple of other things. There are several preamp and eq settings in "Retro" that are helpful with this as well.

When I created the hardware unit, The Source + Plus, it was largely for the purpose you are requesting. There is a combination of events that happen that will always elude people trying to match certain masters when working ITB. I don't think it is impossible, but I do think that every software plug-in I've heard and liked has a certain threshold which beyond that, it sounds fake. I like that this isn't as much an issue with Nebula. With Neb- once you cross it's threshold you are out of bounds regarding intended parameters and it stops working! But, within its capabilities it does not ever sound fake when done right.

With the right high end tube hardware, you can fine tune the sound directly towards the mix you are recording, adding just the right amount of harmonics, frequency, and leveling-type limiting. This type of effect 'grows' the signal. It does not chop off your transient peaks, but makes the whole mix bigger, broader, louder, but no timing change and no fake compression effect. EQ'ing during or after this process or even before- all allows for a completely unique signature sound. Some of this exists in the Tube Bender as well, and can REALLY get the right mix glue along the way.

1. EQ before compressing/limiting/widening/saturating etc. Let's say you do whatever you deem necessary to get a good sounding mix that is together and unified. When getting to the Master, the only way to open up the right amount of dynamic space and fix things without taking away what makes them sound blended together is to start by doing the surgical eq first before any mastering limiting compressing etc. This is why I get concerned when I hear too many prefab preset lists for the 'mastering chain' when mixing a song down. I really don't think you should try to listen for a cohesive mixdown and slam it for a big final mix/premaster if there is any intention of doing a real separate mastering. Perhaps test mixes and premaster tests can use a few favorite chains at master mixdown, but it is so important for focus at that stage to be on bringing the mix elements together. NOT overdoing it at that point is the promise for a great final result.

So, we take the mix and sweep from low to high with a narrow band eq and a brickwall limiter at the end of the chain for monitoring to protect from overloads. When certain frequencies jump way out and especially if they resonate on a good sounding eq, these are potential frequencies that are stealing some of your impact volume and mix energy. Make sure and A/B listen to each stage of changes you make- always leave an opening to do less or nothing at all. Usually you will find several decibels more room in the mix after doing this, and the balance is almost always better with the same mix than it was before this stage. To help with this, I recommend doing comparitive listening on your mastering monitors. Pick 3-5 songs in the genre you are working- choose mixes that are immediately your favorite- go for what is pleasant to your ears not what you think is supposed to be- what you like. It is helpful for modern releases in comp listening- to reduce the level -5dB or so to make sure you are hearing a great mix/master comp and not just a loud one!

2. If the sweetening effect in the highs didn't happen in the mixing stage at all- there are 2 ways to eq for broader "Q" sweetening- before and after comp/limiting. The tubes have a HUGE impact on bringing this sound. Tape can as well Once the high end sounds as you wish, you can tailor whatever comp and/or limiting to the mix. You may want to do deep threshold or parallel mixing to achieve the big effect without losing the right highs. You may want to do a little compression and then add a little sparkle before master limiter.

I will continue to give this some thought and perhaps this is something to consider for a follow-up on the Producer's Pack to address specific mastering tasks. I know it is supposed to be taboo to generalize certain things as important and specialized as the mastering process, but there are things that are done very routinely in specific problem solving scenarios. Sometimes the simpler and more straight forward the tools the better the decision and result.

Thanks for taking the time to mention that!
-M.

mangel1234: Very good news about the combo packs!! the LE idea that I had in mind was something very similar to the options you will provide.

Just to mention, specially after trying the free lib.s you sampled I always thought they were very good for the price. Only problem is even though pricing is great, it still doesn't make it easy for some of us to buy them without a little saving Your solution will make things easyer

Also a small request if its ok; Since you are a mastering engineer and currently have alot of experience with sampling tubes, I had an idea that I was thinking about but always forgot to ask you.

I'm a little into ITB mastering. One of the things I can't get with plug-ins I tryed is to have sweet but still open sounding highs with loud masters (of course I'm talking in a professional matter, semi-pro solutions are somewhat already avalible with the plug-in world). After trying whatever avalible, I finally got convinced that this isn't truly possible without tube based hardware (my guess is specially compressors). When I tryed nebula, the free tubes as the effect of what they did gave me some hope that this could actually be possible.

I was wondering if you could make an combo specificly for this matter to your mastering or tube library? I'm just guessing since I don't have experience with hardware in mastering, but what I had in mind was tube presets that are ment to be somewhere in the near end of the mastering chain.

Thanks for the very guidening post!! I'm familiar to your advices but after reading it realized I have to give further thought for myself on certain approaches and specially with nebula.