Redline Preamp

[Tp3]

Remember that the tubes on the GUI light up depending on how hard they are driven, so you can use this to gauge whether you are hitting it hard enough. You can see them more clearly if you switch to the Vintage skin

Lee, my friend

You can hardly tell by the tubes what is going on. and in any case : the tubes light in reaction to how
"hard" the certain band is processed. they are not means to meter the input nor the output in and out of the
plug.

My question to Jules was (and still is...):
Does "drive" represent pure input level going in to the plug ? because I don't know, I seem to get different results
from "driving" the plug internally and externally via an auxiliary plug (like the FreeG).
RLPA sounds subtle even if you drive it but it is only with external plug (Sonalksis FreeG in this case. could
also be GVST GGain) that it comes to life and I could REALLY
differentiate between the presets...

DanielKonopka

You don't really need me (although I might help if you STILL have difficulty after the following example).

1) Import a drum loop (or whatever loop that is comprised of several elements)

2) Insert (eg) Sonalksis FreeG right BEFORE Redline Preamp. gauge the peaks BEFORE RLPA and aim to -3dB to
-1dB (you can gauge with Aux plug like RMS Buddy) or, as K-Slash have said "START with -4dB"

3) Start flicking through RLPA presets. in no time you would be able to discern preset from preset and better
judge if it suit your needs or not. elements will become subtly pronounced according to the preset or to the
the setting you choose. some presets will make your sound "open" and feel "alive" (as apposed to flat and
lifeless). that is now MY experience with MY ears. before that (ie. the "trick" with externally driving the plug)
I could hardly discern preset from preset. NOW I CAN

Hope this helps

[lee dc]

Remember that the tubes on the GUI light up depending on how hard they are driven, so you can use this to gauge whether you are hitting it hard enough. You can see them more clearly if you switch to the Vintage skin

Lee, my friend

You can hardly tell by the tubes what is going on. and in any case : the tubes light in reaction to how
"hard" the certain band is processed. they are not means to meter the input nor the output in and out of the
plug.

Of course, you should use your ears to get it right. But if the tubes aren't lighting up at all, it's a good indication that you are not driving them hard enough for there to be much of a difference in the sound.

Regarding the Drive control, as far as I can tell, this drives the tube section only. If you crank the input signal using FreeG, you are also amplifying the dry part of the signal. This is why pushing it 12dB with FreeG sounds different to pushing the Drive control to 12dB, because the dry part is 12dB louder too. Even if you compensate with the output knob, there's still a 12dB difference between the wet and dry parts depending on the method used.

As far as I have been able to figure out, the incoming signal is attenuated/boosted according to the Drive control. It is then split into three bands, and each band is attenuated/boosted according to its band's individual drive control. Each band is then processed with tube saturation, and the three bands mixed. The clipping stage is then applied to the mixed signal. The resulting signal is then mixed with the original dry signal (ie, the raw input signal, with no gain applied).

I did some null tests to confirm the above, and it seemed to work, but it would be best to get the info direct from the man who knows best - Jules!

[dj! (112dB)]

Jules, how about simple input-level knob+meter?

Might not even be a bad idea . Thanks for the entire discussion so far--the point that you have to drive Preamp hard to get an immediately noticeable difference is a really good one and I'm definitely going to add a little prose to the manual there. (Lower levels are still useful if you want to use Preamp to emulate mixing through a console by putting an instance on each and every track--but that's definitely I don't expect casual demo'ers to do.) I'll see if I can squeeze in an Input Gain and corresponding level meter in a next update.

the tubes light in reaction to how "hard" the certain band is processed. they are not means to meter the input nor the output in and out of the plug.

True, but if you get a lot of tube activity that means that Preamp is adding a lot of character--I was going to say "harmonic distortion" but remembered just in time --so you shd be able to hear it clearly, regardless of the input or output level.

As far as I have been able to figure out, the incoming signal is attenuated/boosted according to the Drive control. It is then split into three bands, and each band is attenuated/boosted according to its band's individual drive control. Each band is then processed with tube saturation, and the three bands mixed. The clipping stage is then applied to the mixed signal. The resulting signal is then mixed with the original dry signal (ie, the raw input signal, with no gain applied).

That description is spot on. One small side comments I want to add is that the "tube" bands don't process the incoming signal as you would (probably?) expect--they pass only the wet (or character) part of the signal. That way Preamp doesn't act like an EQ, it leaves the original audio intact and only adds "character" even when you're cranking up the bands' gain.

-- dj!

[Tp3]

Might not even be a bad idea . Thanks for the entire discussion so far--the point that you have to drive Preamp hard to get an immediately noticeable difference is a really good one and I'm definitely going to add a little prose to the manual there. (Lower levels are still useful if you want to use Preamp to emulate mixing through a console by putting an instance on each and every track--but that's definitely I don't expect casual demo'ers to do.) I'll see if I can squeeze in an Input Gain and corresponding level meter in a next update.

You're most welcome I would not only add to the manual but set the first preset to be one that is
absolutely distinguishable (WeveArts, with their Tube Saturator, did it like that - BTW)

was going to say "harmonic distortion" but remembered just in time

This term, should be banned from audio jargon
There should be distortion that refers to --> guitar distortion
and HARMONIC MANIPULATION - which is what should be explained to layman.

"Distortion" is Engineer's language. in technical terms, when you change something electrical, you are not
"Changing" nor "Modifying" it. you are DISTORTING it ("get in the way so it is not like it was before").
Too bad that to the broad audience, the term "distortion" equals --> Jimi Hendrix tearing his guitar strings
like there's no tomorrow....
But hey, we live in 21th century... a barber is no longer a BARBER. he is a "Hair Designer"

One small side comments I want to add is that .... That way Preamp doesn't act like an EQ

Well then, you should revisit your Manual (again ). the Manual specifically denotes that "(You may think of the Lo/Mid/Hi Frequency controls as low-pass, peaking, and high-pass filters,respectively.)

Don't know about you, but when I read low-pass...peaking...high-pass... FILTERS... the word EQ spring to mind
immediately

[dj! (112dB)]

I would not only add to the manual but set the first preset to be one that is absolutely distinguishable (WeveArts, with their Tube Saturator, did it like that - BTW)

Another good tip, so another "thank you"! I need to learn to think more commercial... right now the first preset is one I much like the character of. As if my taste is going to sell lots of copies, hehe--I shd know better by now.

This term, should be banned from audio jargon

Yes, I can imagine how it evokes all kinds of wrong associations. Problem is, when you're familiar with the term (and especially when coming from a technical background--deep down all us developers are nerds to at least *some* degree--you know exactly what to expect, whereas "character" or "mojo" sound much more like marketing speak. But it would explain why many pros or semi-pros (or even wannabe-pros) seem to get what Preamp is all about, yet at the same time it confuses the hell out of users who are (presumably) not familiar with the term.

Well then, you should revisit your Manual (again ). the Manual specifically denotes that "(You may think of the Lo/Mid/Hi Frequency controls as low-pass, peaking, and high-pass filters,respectively.)

Riiiiiight... I can see how that could be interpreted as such. All I'm trying to say there is that the way in which the Frequency/Bandwidth knobs control the frequencies that generate harmoni***** aaarrggghh: character! work the same way as in EQs--to give ppl a description in terms they're familiar with. But yes, I understand the (deliberate or not) association with EQ.

-- dj!

[Tp3]

Riiiiiight... I can see how that could be interpreted as such. All I'm trying to say there is that the way in which the Frequency/Bandwidth knobs control the frequencies that generate harmoni***** aaarrggghh: character! work the same way as in EQs--to give ppl a description in terms they're familiar with. But yes, I understand the (deliberate or not) association with EQ.

-- dj!

There you go, Jules... lesson 1 in contemporary marketing :

1) Assume that everyone and anyone is outright dumb and highly knowledgeable intellectuals - AT THE SAME TIME

BTW, I have an "Harmonic Distortion" replacement. I'll PM it to you.

[ZenPunkHippy]

Great thread, thanks for the discussion. I was a little sceptical about purchasing RL Preamp since trying the demo, thinking that Decaptator from Soundtoys would be enough for this kind of processing and Preamp is too subtle. Now that some details about it's proper operation have been explained, it's definitely joining the other RL plug-ins in my setup. Really nice work 112dB

Peace,
Andy.

[DanielKonopka]

I highly recommend Channel-Tool plugin
from [LINK REMOVED]
as a 10x lighter replacement for gain staging
with Sonalksis FreeG.

Just watch out for Gain L / Gain R parameters,
because sometimes, when you turn the knobs
via the GUI, they get set to slightly
different float values. Something like...

Gain L: -1.12712dB
Gain R: -1.12740dB

This is risky since it can alter the stereo image.
To correct it move both knobs all the way down
and -don't- use Shift for fine-tuning.

Does someone know a lightweight gain plugin
with linked channels?

Ah and don't forget to post some samples of the preamp.

[bmanic]

[heffus]

Ya gotta love it.

[K-Slash]

Just watch out for Gain L / Gain R parameters,
because sometimes, when you turn the knobs
via the GUI, they get set to slightly
different float values. Something like...

Gain L: -1.12712dB
Gain R: -1.12740dB

This is risky since it can alter the stereo image.
To correct it move both knobs all the way down
and -don't- use Shift for fine-tuning.

You gotta be kidding.

We CAN'T hear these so small differences...

Come on, is anyone here able to hear a difference of 0.00028 dB .

[Tp3]

We CAN'T hear these so small differences...

Come on, is anyone here able to hear a difference of 0.00028 dB .

Yes I can

My right ear was feeling a little warmer when I demoed RLPA.

Does that count ?

[DanielKonopka]

What is there to laugh at? I don't get you.

Just because I told you about the discrepancy
(and with good intention at that!)
does not mean I obey the "warning" like be-it-end-all.
I only wanted to let people know. That's all.

That example was ordinary, it can be a difference
of 0.3dB as well, sometimes.

And YES, I know we can't hear such small orders.

Maybe it's just me who likes to have things like that
set the same, especially in 32 bit float domain.

If it was analog I couldn't care less.

Maybe it's because I have OCD, that I care about such
things, whatever.

Why are people so uptight and hostile towards themselves,
these days?

[yellowfever]

Why are people so uptight and hostile towards themselves these days?

A very good point; something I and probably quite a few others have been wondering of late. However, unfortuntaley you did set yourself up for the usual comments as the db difference was particularly minor and irrelevant. But, it's up to you that you pointed it out - no harm done.

[bmanic]

Why are people so uptight and hostile towards themselves,
these days?

Why do people get so offended and all riled up these days?

Relax. Your comment was quite funny and the website you linked to didn't work for me (does now though).

Hence the from me. Nothing serious.

Cheers!
bManic