Redline Preamp

[contrary]

RL preamp seems to have the goods !!

[Tp3]

The thing is, and it's purely subjective: when's it analog enough flavor? I use mostly tube mics and transformer/tube pre's and there's plenty of vibe going in. Yet, I'm always experimenting with adding more character.

Funny as it is, the BIGGEST technical problem pros and hobbyists alike face is not WHAT to use - quality is hardly a factor anymore - but "what to NOT use" and "when good becomes abusive".

To your question :
Not too long ago I was processing offline with Nebula and with some 3rd party program. I was processing this particular program a few times because that was what the developer of Nebula suggested.
It was a mistake.
I then came to know what "too analog... too warm... too bad" is.

I, by no means, can be called a "pro" (and **I** describe a "pro" as someone who's ENGAGED in mixing and/or producing
activity on a daily and hourly basis. and gets PAID for it)
BUT

To my ears... "enough of analog flavor" means that the sound stops being flattering (a highly subjective term that I WONT get into) and instead becomes "mushy". that is, of course, my opinion.

BTW

BEFORE asking "when's it analog enough flavor" maybe you should start by defining (and AGREEING of) "what IS analog" (and its derivatives "what is warm" and "what is airy")

[DanielKonopka]

Funny as it is, the BIGGEST technical problem pros and hobbyists alike face is not WHAT to use - quality is hardly a factor anymore - but "what to NOT use" and "when good becomes abusive".

My opinion, exactly.

I presume (I'm probably too young to know for a fact)
back in the 80s there was not so vast selection
of tools. This, I think, caused people to focus on
musicianship and not on testing the tools.

Nowadays, there is so much of it all available
for everyone, that it no longer is most about
focusing on music. It kills the workflow.

We need to sort the grain from the chaff
and decrease our focus on tools.

[kobal]

thats a reason why i like hardware and like more to save for it insteed of spending money in plugins like i did in the paste, no need to look if they are better tools for the job i can just focus on music cause i m 100% happy with the tools i use

[Tp3]

thats a reason why i like hardware and like more to save for it insteed of spending money in plugins like i did in the paste, no need to look if they are betetr tools for the job you can juts focus on music

...and not only you

But veterans can not always "encapsulate" it in words... and can not express WHY they don't like digital.

Almost 9 out 10 times it is just DIFFERENT (not necessarily better OR worse). but in digital, you have a saturation of
tools (WAYYY too much) then it's easier to just say "my TubeTech is BETTER ! why ? its ANALOG, for gods sake !"

I just cannot forget Infected Mushroom review on AudioFanzine.com :

The interviewer asked one of the duo about his Lexicon Reverb... "what makes it so unique and what exactly is
it that you like in the sound ?" and the guy answered "ummm... because it costs 30.000 $ ?!...."

Analog, as of today - for the almost absolute majority - exhibits better workflow. period. just because one
lonely reason : you have MUCH less to choose from. hence - less headaches.

And until there are means to help changing that (ie. teach not only how to use a given tool, but also how
to differentiate it from other tools - in order to stay with the LEAST amount of tools you can extract the MOST of) - it is not going to change.

[JeffSanders]

Excellent posts, guys. I appreciate what you've taken the time to write. Spot on.

The songs I'm working on at the moment are very sparse. So far, no drums or keyboards (no samples). And the sounds I'm getting on the way in are going through a pretty sweet chain, for low end. (vocal through a Rode NTK and a GAP Pre-73 Neve clone with dual transformers, for instance) I can hear that depth and authority straight away. And I'm only using plugs that will shine a magnifying glass on that. Not sand it down.

But when you think about it, these "magnifying glasses" so many legendary producers used on classic albums typically contained more stages of tubes and transformers. I guess the question is how subtle those stages were compared with the "wow factor" people expect to hear from a plugin.

Then add to the fact they were recorded to tape as well. So every stage had the potential to "sand down" the performances...then again, when a performance is magic, it moves people no matter what.

[Tp3]

I guess the question is how subtle those stages were compared with the "wow factor" people expect to hear from a plugin.

I have NO IDEA as I was NEVER involved in a process in which analog gear was concerned... but I CAN ASSURE you
that MOST IF NOT ALL processes are chains upon chains upon chains... small subtleties that once assembled - give
the WOW result we hear. just read Sound on Sound about contemporary producers (mostly Americans) who still a lot
of outboard in order to achieve the final result.

But we hear the FINAL result and want to emulate the FINAL result... but hey maaan, we is living in an earha we
is samplin evreethin !

Then add to the fact they were recorded to tape as well. So every stage had the potential to "sand down" the performances

As I'm not familiar with the term "sand down", so I'll guess (is it something to do with your surname ? )

[Tp3]

OK

I found something interesting...

I remembered some article made by SOS contributor Martin Walker where he said

As with all level-dependent effects, you ideally need to adjust the plug-in's input level, using
the associated meter, until you get 'into the zone', so an input-level control would have been helpful, and you
do need to put in some effort before the controls make sense, but I was well pleased with the results I
achieved

So I went straight to the "instant assistant" (my god, does this thread enhance my rhyming abilities or what ) - Sonalksis FreeG .... I cranked up the level... oh... Lo-an-Behol ! you bet your A$$ you'd hear the plug in action !

Jules, how about simple input-level knob+meter ?

Maybe it would help the "Can't hear nothin' ! " guys (myself included upon first trying the plug !...)

[JeffSanders]

Then add to the fact they were recorded to tape as well. So every stage had the potential to "sand down" the performances

As I'm not familiar with the term "sand down", so I'll guess (is it something to do with your surname ? )

Like using sandpaper on a piece of wood. Or sand-blasting metal. It can remove imperfections that might add charm or flavor. Dulling or homogenizing the end result. Or it can enhance them.

[eduardo_b]

Excellent posts, guys. I appreciate what you've taken the time to write. Spot on.

The songs I'm working on at the moment are very sparse. So far, no drums or keyboards (no samples). And the sounds I'm getting on the way in are going through a pretty sweet chain, for low end. (vocal through a Rode NTK and a GAP Pre-73 Neve clone with dual transformers, for instance) I can hear that depth and authority straight away. And I'm only using plugs that will shine a magnifying glass on that. Not sand it down.

But when you think about it, these "magnifying glasses" so many legendary producers used on classic albums typically contained more stages of tubes and transformers. I guess the question is how subtle those stages were compared with the "wow factor" people expect to hear from a plugin.

Then add to the fact they were recorded to tape as well. So every stage had the potential to "sand down" the performances...then again, when a performance is magic, it moves people no matter what.

Subtlety is nice to have, but how does it translate to the real world. The answer is, quite differently. The hardware used to listen to the music, the listening environment and the perceptions of the listener inevitably mean that what you hear in the audio production process is not what is going to be heard "out there." Which means that the nuances, no matter how obvious to you, may be non-existent to listeners. The attention to detail is nice, but it's really more for you, not them.

[JeffSanders]

Hell no...not a big fan of subtlety. I'm pushing the transformers on this preamp, and there are some very pleasing (and not subtle) harmonics flying off of it. Just questioning where this "harmonics on top of harmonics" becomes less electric and more just mud. The point where this exciting level of harmonic enhancement starts to fall away.

Back to Redline Preamp. I guess what I'm hearing through my recording chain is what Redline Preamp is trying to emulate for signals that don't have it to begin with.

Meh. Didn't get enough sleep last night.

[eduardo_b]

Hell no...not a big fan of subtlety. I'm pushing the transformers on this preamp, and there are some very pleasing (and not subtle) harmonics flying off of it. Just questioning where this "harmonics on top of harmonics" becomes less electric and more just mud. The point where this exciting level of harmonic enhancement starts to fall away.

Back to Redline Preamp. I guess what I'm hearing through my recording chain is what Redline Preamp is trying to emulate for signals that don't have it to begin with.

Meh. Didn't get enough sleep last night.

Reminds me of those concerts with a number of famous guitarists playing together. Concept seems good, but the results are audio mud.

[Tp3]

Just to emphasize :

Apparently, I haven't seem to notice K-Slash's words, so I'll reiterate them:

Also make sure that you have a "hot" input level before hitting the plugin. I usually start with a signal that peaks at -4dBFS

I would even go a little higher

The difference between "hot" signal and "not so hot" signal is exactly what makes people not hear anything...

And again I would ask for a proper input meter + input gain (it looks to me as drive does not really act as
an input meter). if that's possible in current design, of course...

[lee dc]

Remember that the tubes on the GUI light up depending on how hard they are driven, so you can use this to gauge whether you are hitting it hard enough. You can see them more clearly if you switch to the Vintage skin

[DanielKonopka]

The difference between "hot" signal and "not so hot" signal is exactly what makes people not hear anything...

Could you show me a short sample or two of what to expect from it?
I only want to make sure I haven't gone deaf yet