Cytomic "The Drop" Resonant Filter

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ENV1 wrote:It really pains me to see otherwise well desigend UIs let down by unsharp fonts. So if i may suggest something that works quite well for myself; dont use whatever you were using for the labels, (Photoshop?), go the extra mile and make your labels with Windows Paint. Its no doubt a lot of extra work, not to mention tedious since Paint doesnt do layers or transparency. But since Paint is using Windowses font anti-aliasing, which is by far the best of all graphics apps i know, the result will be more than worth it because your texts will be actually sharp that way and thus infinitely better legible.

To demonstrate how huge a difference this really makes, heres a quick comparison shot.

<click for full size>
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Thanks for trying to help, I appreciate the thought, I have already considered all the alternatives and chosen the best for the situation at hand.

There are so many problems with using sub-pixel rendered text into bitmaps that I won't go into them all here, but the major two are lack of support for a scalable interface and no support for screens that do not have an RGB pixel layout (eg a non-lcd / led, and lcd/led with BGR layout or an lcd/led rotated 90 deg). The only decent way to use sub-pixel rendering of text is to do it programmatically (ie generate the text at run time for a particular target screen pixel layout), but this then loses all subtle shading that you get for rendering things directly from 3D, using a 16 samples per pixel catmull-rom anti-aliasing, which is how the rest of the image is also rendered.

In addition the font you used is larger than the one I used, so the text doesn't fit (eg the words MANUAL and STEP SEQ are not in your image), and the letter forms are too thin so I can see coloured bands everywhere which adds up to it all looking horrible (eg on MULT the vertical line of the L looks pink).

Please compare my method (top) and your method (bottom) when you have a scalable interface like The Drop has:

Image
The Glue, The Drop - www.cytomic.com

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Aaron Zilch wrote:Huge fan/addict of the plug-in and I've been raving about it for over a year now to everyone out here in the LA Ableton scene. Also I've noticed it popping up a lot in the arsenal of pros profiled on Future Music "In The Studio" and the like. Not bad for still being in beta :)

New feature set looks AMAZING! Especially the modulation section. The decision to switch by destination rather than source was a damn fine one, and the ability ( i assume ) to independently mute sources by destination is awesome. I love the character of the existing envelopes and LFO so much I often use it with the filters turned off for "simple" volume gating/pumping effects. Excited to be able to use them in so many more flexible ways.

So one modulation thing I have noticed in the new GUI but haven't seen anything written about is the Step Sequencer. The ability to route it to LFO amount especially has me itching to get my hands on the new version. Are there any pics of the GUI for the step sequencer?

Really looking forward to all the additional plugs the work on The Drop has provided a framework for. When you say stomp boxes I assume you are talking at least one fuzz/overdrive/germanium type monster. That makes me very very happy.

Aaron Zilch
Ableton Certified Trainer
https://www.ableton.com/en/education/ce ... ron-zilch/
Hey Aaron, you don't miss a trick, thanks for posting :) The mod section is much nicer to use now for most tasks, I've also added a macro knob for "Dest Value", so on my Push controller I have the following bank of 8 set up:

Dest Select, Dest Value, Depth Lfo1 Depth Lfo2 Depth StepSeq, Depth Env1 Depth Env2, Depth Fm

as the 8 knobs. So if I choose Lp Freq form the Dest Select, then Dest Value controls the main LP Freq knob and all the other knobs control the modulation depths from each source.

The little button to the left of each source is the "Mod Enabled" button, so you can switch that off to bypass modulation for that destination.

It's great to hear you are using The Drop for volume pumping work, I did apologize to my friend Steve Duda that I may be taking away some of his LFO Tool market. It is super easy to dial in either a faked sidechain duck with the LFO (asym near 100%, pre/post mod depth from LFO2 at -100%, adjust curve to taste), but you can actually do proper sidechain pumping as well using an envelope follower keyed of a sidechain input. It acts like a feedforward analog modelled compressor.

The step sequencer is actually just giving people access to what is already built into the LFO 2. At the moment I have the LFO 2 "steps" at values of 1 0 1 0 1 0..., but these can be randomised with the Rand knob to other values. I decided to add way to allow people to dial in any steps pattern they want using a Step Sequencer that slaves to the LFO 2 clock / swing / triggering, so you can either use the direct step sequencer output (which can optionally be smoothed), or use it as a way to set the levels of each transition of LFO 2. I haven't done the gui for it yet, but it will be pretty basic, 32 patterns of 2 to 32 steps, step values quantized to 25 levels.

As for the stop boxes, yes, they will be overdrive / distortion effects, which have already been done to death, but then again so have compressors and filters :tu:
The Glue, The Drop - www.cytomic.com

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andy-cytomic wrote:Please compare my method (top) and your method (bottom) when you have a scalable interface like The Drop has:
Well, i would say yours is lightyears better at large size, (I missed the fact that the UI is gonna be scalable), but then thats to be expected since blowing up the Paint fonts ruins their AA pixels and therefore their sharpness. If their AA pixels would be properly scaled along with the rest of the image it would look like this

Image

and it would again be sharper. (Sorry about the crummy spacing, quickie job, early in the morning, have to leave soon.)

But i do see why this is not an option in this case.

Conclusion: The perfect solution has yet to be invented. :(

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ENV1 wrote: Well, i would say yours is lightyears better at large size, (I missed the fact that the UI is gonna be scalable)
Quite a bit miss there. You also haven't considered lots of other issues as well. Even if the UI is not scalable then you still need two versions of every bit of text (one with and one without sub-pixel rendered fonts) since an end user may use a physical screen layout that includes an LCD rotated by 90 degrees, so you will need to detect this and switch which image you use, and then you are back to using non-subpixel rendered version anyway, so you better make sure this looks good. Then there is retina display support, so if you don't have a x2 size version of the same sub-pixel rendered text bitmap text then it will look like I have shown previously (not just blurry, but horrible colours everywhere), or if you only have a x2 version then the people without retina display will get horrible looking text, and the list goes on...
ENV1 wrote:...
But i do see why this is not an option in this case.

Conclusion: The perfect solution has yet to be invented. :(
So the other option, as I already said, is to use programmatically generated text, but when the font is this small the sub-pixel rendering actually makes it look more blurry, and you lose the subtle shading so the text looks like it is plastered on as an afterthought, not a part of the interface. The top is the what I am currently doing (the direct output of high quality anti-aliasing in the 3D package), and the bottom is using sub-pixel font rendering programmatically with white text and and opacity of 78%. Please compare only the text under the knobs.

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Ok, now please don't post about sub-pixel rendered text any more, I do know what I'm doing, and I'm trying to finish a product here.
The Glue, The Drop - www.cytomic.com

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With all due respect, the fact that i have decided to favor a method that works well enough for the majority of cases doesnt mean that i have failed to consider anything. After all the other methods, many of which i couldnt even apply unless i could change things in the application itself, wouldnt be perfect in all cases either, so obviously one will always have to make some sort of choice.


But dont worry, i know when to bow out.

My intent was not to get on your balls or steal your time so cheers and good luck with the project.

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Aaaaaaaand the thread is three years old, today.
Congrats?
ImageImageImageImage

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Time to celebrate with a new Beta perhaps :D
Amazon: why not use an alternative

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VariKusBrainZ wrote:Time to celebrate with a new Beta perhaps :D
YES!!!! :tu:

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highkoo wrote:Aaaaaaaand the thread is three years old, today.
Congrats?
Congrats with a question mark? Have you heard this thing? OF COURSE it's congrats :party:

Congrats :party:
http://sendy.bandcamp.com/releases < My new album at Bandcamp! Now pay what you like!

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Look at this way: you've been able to buy, and use a fully functioning, amazing filter plugin for several years already instead of having to have waited this whole time. So, yeah, the "final" version isn't out yet, but there's nothing stopping you from treating the current version as a feature complete plugin. If anything, you can consider the 1.0 release to be kind of version 2.0 if you wanted to look on the bright side.

So, congrats indeed.

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Any news :) ?

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Here is a little dubstep style track with The Drop automated heavily on a instance of DCAM SS Cypher. The track was rendered at 96khz 24bit and dithered to 16bit 44khz.

Cytomic The glue was used on the master bus and all Cytomic plugins and SS Cypher were rendered with 8x oversampling. Geist was used for the drum sounds and the entire thing was sequenced in Ableton live 9 with some Ableton FX used on the sends and master.

Project BPM was 180. I'll probably fix this up mix wise later when I have more time, but so far I just wanted to share what kind of stuff you can do when you automate the LFO Rate on the drop.

Watch your speaker levels before playing!
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/108869354/HDrop.wav
:borg:

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kj.metissage wrote:Any news :) ?
Things are humming along. Here is the final list of drop specific tasks to complete, all of which are small:
  • post dist
  • step seq for lfo2
  • visualisers for lfo2, env1/2, and fm
  • de click (again!)
  • crossfade lp/hp power button
  • env audio to trig
  • env midi sens
  • automatic bypass of processing on silence / no midi input
I have finished the last big job, which was re-coding the entire parameter system. In The Glue every process block I re-calculate every parameter since there are only a few, and the current version of The Drop I do this as well but there are so many parameters in The Drop so it is pretty wasteful of cpu. Now only when a change is made is any cpu used, which is much better.

I also also adding programmatically generated text, so not matter what scale the user interface is at you get crisp text, and for those people using retina displays it will be super crisp. Yep The Drop is now fully retina display ready :) A big thanks to Eric Silva for making a free version of Helvetica Neue so I could do this! http://www.ephifonts.com/free-fonts/dow ... neue-heavy

I have donated Eric some money to show my appreciation since if I wanted to license fonts from someone like linotype it would cost around $800 per font typeface (ie regular, bold, italic are all new typefaces), per plugin!
The Glue, The Drop - www.cytomic.com

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This is great news Andy and kudos on the post. I can almost taste the filtration...smells near :)

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automatic bypass of processing on silence
Will the processing stop if there is a noise floor ? Can the threshold be adjusted ?

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