KVR Audio

LiteOn · Post by **LiteOn** » Thu Dec 27, 2012 8:13 am

Sendy wrote:If you do add extra LFO waveforms please add square and sawtooth if possible, these two are awesome for lo-fi and glitchy stuff.

Erm, it's already there: "saw up, saw down, triangle, square" (from manual, p10).

Cheers,
LiteOn

andy-cytomic · Post by **andy-cytomic** » Thu Dec 27, 2012 3:56 pm

Sendy wrote:If you do add extra LFO waveforms please add square and sawtooth if possible, these two are awesome for lo-fi and glitchy stuff.

The LFO is already continuously variable with the asym knob between saw up / tri / saw down, with curve at 0%, and then the curve knob varies the straight line segments into exponential / inverse exponential shapes with almost right angles at 100% and -100%. With the curve at full you get pwm with the asym knob.

dayjob · Post by **dayjob** » Thu Dec 27, 2012 8:27 pm

andy_cytomic wrote:
Sendy wrote:If you do add extra LFO waveforms please add square and sawtooth if possible, these two are awesome for lo-fi and glitchy stuff.
The LFO is already continuously variable with the asym knob between saw up / tri / saw down, with curve at 0%, and then the curve knob varies the straight line segments into exponential / inverse exponential shapes with almost right angles at 100% and -100%. With the curve at full you get pwm with the asym knob.

and w/the swing/rand/phase/spacing knobs it gets pretty funky.

andy-cytomic · Post by **andy-cytomic** » Fri Dec 28, 2012 6:12 am

I've been having a think about the Sine shape and have a suggestion.

How many people think the "Uni" button is essential? I can replace the "Uni" button that with a "Sine" button, and I also want to add a new button called "Once" in the remaining space for a one-shot mode when the LFO is triggered so you can use it like an envelope. How does this sound? I think this makes most sense since modulation via the LFO is typically a bipolar thing, and you can easily adjust the Offset knob to make up for any differences. Uni mode is automatically used for amplitude modulation of the pre or post level.

ZenPunkHippy · Post by **ZenPunkHippy** » Fri Dec 28, 2012 6:17 am

That does sound like a winning solution.

Unipolar is useful, but not so necessary in a plugin with a small number of target parameters.

Peace,
Andy.

andy-cytomic · Post by **andy-cytomic** » Fri Dec 28, 2012 6:27 am

ZenPunkHippy wrote:That does sound like a winning solution.

Unipolar is useful, but not so necessary in a plugin with a small number of target parameters.

Peace,
Andy.

Do you feel having a one shot mode more important that unipolar? I am leaning towards that myself but appreciate comments from others.

ZenPunkHippy · Post by **ZenPunkHippy** » Fri Dec 28, 2012 6:53 am

The extra functionality provided by "single shot" mode outweighs the minor workflow change required to achieve the same results as uni-polar mode IMO.

Peace,
Andy.

andy-cytomic · Post by **andy-cytomic** » Fri Dec 28, 2012 7:07 am

ZenPunkHippy wrote:The extra functionality provided by "single shot" mode outweighs the minor workflow change required to achieve the same results as uni-polar mode IMO.

Peace,
Andy.

There is also the case of when the envelope modulates the depth of the LFO, with bipolar vs unipolar you get a different result, but still I think having the LFO as bipolar only isn't a deal breaker compared to the added functionality of sine and one shot. My main reservation about adding a sine button is that people will get confused at first glance not understand what shape you get when this button is off, as well as not understanding that with the sine mode on you don't always get a pure sine wave!

ZenPunkHippy · Post by **ZenPunkHippy** » Fri Dec 28, 2012 7:26 am

Also single shot mode would only make sense for actual LFO rates - audio rate modulation would not be terribly useful "once" (unless you like clicks).

Peace,
Andy.

camsr · Post by **camsr** » Fri Dec 28, 2012 7:35 am

ZenPunkHippy wrote:Also single shot mode would only make sense for actual LFO rates - audio rate modulation would not be terribly useful "once" (unless you like clicks).

Peace,
Andy.

It is clicks we like.

@midnight · Post by **@midnight** » Fri Dec 28, 2012 7:50 am

andy_cytomic wrote:
ZenPunkHippy wrote:The extra functionality provided by "single shot" mode outweighs the minor workflow change required to achieve the same results as uni-polar mode IMO.

Peace,
Andy.
There is also the case of when the envelope modulates the depth of the LFO, with bipolar vs unipolar you get a different result, but still I think having the LFO as bipolar only isn't a deal breaker compared to the added functionality of sine and one shot. My main reservation about adding a sine button is that people will get confused at first glance not understand what shape you get when this button is off, as well as not understanding that with the sine mode on you don't always get a pure sine wave!

What if you make it a LFO Mode I/II type thing, instead of calling it sine?

Then with the shape parameter and the two modes, people could dial in pretty much any shape imaginable.

LiteOn · Post by **LiteOn** » Fri Dec 28, 2012 9:20 am

andy_cytomic wrote:..., but still I think having the LFO as bipolar only isn't a deal breaker compared to the added functionality of sine and one shot.

Me too. So yes, if there's only either/or I would go for Sine/Once and pass on Uni.

andy_cytomic wrote:My main reservation about adding a sine button is that people will get confused at first glance not understand what shape you get when this button is off, as well as not understanding that with the sine mode on you don't always get a pure sine wave!

Right now, I don't know either what will happen if I push the sine button, eg. is it to replace the triangle or just adding another flavor to the morphable spectrum.

Question on the Sine-for-Once button exchange: it is obvious that plugin screen estate is the driver for that either/or decision. Does that mean enlarging the gui vertically is completely out of scope (for instance, by adding another 'row')? I mean it's not a physical device, so adding more space would be rather cheap.

Cheers,
LiteOn

andy-cytomic · Post by **andy-cytomic** » Fri Dec 28, 2012 9:36 am

LiteOn wrote:Does that mean enlarging the gui vertically is completely out of scope (for instance, by adding another 'row')? I mean it's not a physical device, so adding more space would be rather cheap.

Cheers,
LiteOn

It's not about manufacturing expense, it is about brain drain. I'm already having reservations about adding a Sine button since it is just too unclear what it will do without reading a manual, which is not ideal! Too many buttons and options that aren't really useful just slow down workflow. I would rather sacrifice some features than make the plugin unwieldy to use. How many buttons / knobs does your average LFO have? This one already has 8 knobs, two toggle buttons, a trigger button, and two mode switches!

LiteOn · Post by **LiteOn** » Fri Dec 28, 2012 7:20 pm

Hi Andy,

andy_cytomic wrote:It's not about manufacturing expense, it is about brain drain. I'm already having reservations about adding a Sine button since it is just too unclear what it will do without reading a manual, which is not ideal! Too many buttons and options that aren't really useful just slow down workflow. I would rather sacrifice some features than make the plugin unwieldy to use. How many buttons / knobs does your average LFO have? This one already has 8 knobs, two toggle buttons, a trigger button, and two mode switches!

I see the dilemma, and since I also prefer the more easy approaches for 1.0 I could happily live with going for Sine/Once and skipping Uni.

Cheers,
LiteOn

Frantz · Post by **Frantz** » Fri Dec 28, 2012 8:36 pm

andy_cytomic wrote: How many people think the "Uni" button is essential? I can replace the "Uni" button that with a "Sine" button

How about a multimode Uni/Sine/Once button? It's state would be controlled by its own dedicated LFO.

Cytomic "The Drop" Resonant Filter