Cytomic "The Drop" Resonant Filter

[andy-cytomic]

Ugh I liked this thread better when it was about filters and sound.

But to have it on record: the current system works fine, please don't switch to a dongle, that would suck.

And here's a thought experiment for you...

Someone uses Drop/Glue on their tracks. What happens next? THEY KEEP USING them. And they drool over your next plugin.

The only people selling these plugins are the ones not actually making music, so please do not punish your super happy customers by acquiescing to a vocal contingent of people who evidently don't appreciate your hard work.

Don't worry, I'm not moving over to use a dongle, there are so many issues tied up with a single point of failure I won't even begin.

I agree, this talk of copy protection hasn't turned up anything I haven't already considered, but hopefully is has helped some people understand some of the reasons behind the decisions. Please email me directly if you wish to discuss copy protection and license transfers further: www.cytomic.com/contact

[Frantz]

cytomic.com is down and The Drop is suddenly telling me it needs to be authorized. This sucks.

Does anyone have an email address for Andy that is not ___@cytomic.com?

[Nightpolymath]

cytomic.com is down and The Drop is suddenly telling me it needs to be authorized. This sucks.

Does anyone have an email address for Andy that is not ___@cytomic.com?

Scroll down to the bottom of this page.

http://whois.domaintools.com/cytomic.com

[Frantz]

Cytomic.com is back but now I get an error when I try to register.

[andy-cytomic]

There was a major problem with the data centre that houses my server, it's fixed now. This was all completely out of my control and seemed to happen late Saturday night GMT - sorry about any issues this may have caused.

I need to double check that all the most recent purchases are in the database, but for everyone that can log into their Cytomic account and see they have license will be able to authorise against it.

[elassi]

Seems to work perfectly again. Had to re-authorize "Glue" too but the counter was set to 0 and now it's 1 - like before.

[andy-cytomic]

I've disabled the web page until I know what state the database is in, but the authorisation mechanism is still up and running.

[Daags]

The new license transfer system will be:

1) 6 month delay between most recent authorisation / upgrade and when you can sell
2) a fee of 30% of the full price of the plugin being sold

The second is required because I offer an existing customer discount of 30%, so license transfer fee needs to be at least this otherwise I would create a market for any customer to buy additional licenses and then on sell them cheaper than someone can buy them new!

There is another point that is also important, the license will be transferred as is, which includes the authorisation count, only the owner of the license will change. This means there needs to be disclosure and confirmation by the buyer that they know what the auth count is and what this means when buying a license. I will also suggest a maximum price that the buyer should pay based on the number of auths left, so no one gets ripped off.

good lord,
these proposed copy protection/authorisation count policies seem positively draconian ....

how badly were/are you getting shafted by used sales that you've had to concoct schemes like this ?

as for the reasoning behind the 30% transfer fee. Maybe I'm just not smart enough to understand. But, if there's going to be a 6 month delay before a license can be transferred, then the justification for charging a 30% transfer fee appears to be mooted. Who's going to buy a new license for product A, with the idea of selling it 6 months later, to try and benefit from a 30% discount on a license for product B right now, and then hope to sell the original 'dummy' license for product A at such a price that they're benefitting in any meaningful way. It seems like a completely whacky notion to me .... but like I said, I may not be smart enough to understand the reasoning.

all this convoluted transfer fees/auth count/CR nonsense is awful ... I own dongles, I'd choose dongle over that BS any ole day of the week.

I'm just hoping these ideas are more to act as deterrants, something Andy can use against user accounts he suspects are being abused... and that a normal, honest customer likes me gets the ''im just being nice'' treatment should the time ever come that I need support re:licensing/auth counts.

[klinik]

The new license transfer system will be:

1) 6 month delay between most recent authorisation / upgrade and when you can sell
2) a fee of 30% of the full price of the plugin being sold

The second is required because I offer an existing customer discount of 30%, so license transfer fee needs to be at least this otherwise I would create a market for any customer to buy additional licenses and then on sell them cheaper than someone can buy them new!

There is another point that is also important, the license will be transferred as is, which includes the authorisation count, only the owner of the license will change. This means there needs to be disclosure and confirmation by the buyer that they know what the auth count is and what this means when buying a license. I will also suggest a maximum price that the buyer should pay based on the number of auths left, so no one gets ripped off.

good lord,
these proposed copy protection/authorisation count policies seem positively draconian ....

how badly were/are you getting shafted by used sales that you've had to concoct schemes like this ?

as for the reasoning behind the 30% transfer fee. Maybe I'm just not smart enough to understand. But, if there's going to be a 6 month delay before a license can be transferred, then the justification for charging a 30% transfer fee appears to be mooted. Who's going to buy a new license for product A, with the idea of selling it 6 months later, to try and benefit from a 30% discount on a license for product B right now, and then hope to sell the original 'dummy' license for product A at such a price that they're benefitting in any meaningful way. It seems like a completely whacky notion to me .... but like I said, I may not be smart enough to understand the reasoning.

all this convoluted transfer fees/auth count/CR nonsense is awful ... I own dongles, I'd choose dongle over that BS any ole day of the week.

I'm just hoping these ideas are more to act as deterrants, something Andy can use against user accounts he suspects are being abused... and that a normal, honest customer likes me gets the ''im just being nice'' treatment should the time ever come that I need support re:licensing/auth counts.

+1000

[elassi]

Maybe I'm just not smart enough to understand.

Don't take it personal but here you seem to be ...

Let me quote: "...a market for any customer to buy additional licenses"

[Funkybot's Evil Twin]

I'm just hoping these ideas are more to act as deterrants, something Andy can use against user accounts he suspects are being abused... and that a normal, honest customer likes me gets the ''im just being nice'' treatment should the time ever come that I need support re:licensing/auth counts.

I don't feel quite as strongly as you do about how awful it is, but I agree with your overall post, this last bit in particular about using this system to prevent abuse and making exceptions where appropriate. For instance, if I hit 5 auths in the next several, do I have to buy a new license? I'd hope Andy would grant me more auths as long as he had no reason to suspect I was up to no good.

Honestly, I love The Glue and The Drop and can't imagine selling them, so I don't care, but I find the new C/R and transfer process quite convoluted also. I don't care about C/R, but given the current system or iLok, frankly, I'd choose iLok (I know KVR is anti-dongle, so let's not go down that road again in this thread).

The reason I'm not more annoyed is simple: I think Andy has made two phenomenal plugins that I have no intention of selling. If this were a developer whose work wasn't quite so good, or I was less sure about the quality and or stability of the plugs, the C/R combined with the license transfer policy could be a deterrent (hey, at least there's demos). The truth is, there's a ratio of "things I don't like about a EULA vs quality" where I'm just willing to say, "ok, I don't like this or that, but the product is still worth it" and Cytomic comes out ahead on that front.

I honestly don't know what the good solution is. I can definitely understand why Andy doesn't go iLok, I understand why C/R sucks, I understand why transfers suck for developers (moreso if you're going to offer a huge discount to license holders), and I understand why key files or serial protection isn't enough either if you're actually looking to stop piracy. As a customer, I prefer the no DRM/no transfer fees approach a company like Audio Damage does, but I don't blame Andy for not wanting to go down that road as I'm sure their stuff is just pirated left and right, not to mention the huge secondhand market for AD plugs. What's a developer to do? Offer their plugins for rent? Don't even go there...

[Endor-8o8]

I'm just hoping these ideas are more to act as deterrants, something Andy can use against user accounts he suspects are being abused... and that a normal, honest customer likes me gets the ''im just being nice'' treatment should the time ever come that I need support re:licensing/auth counts.

I prefer the no DRM/no transfer fees approach a company like Audio Damage does, but I don't blame Andy for not wanting to go down that road as I'm sure their stuff is just pirated left and right, not to mention the huge secondhand market for AD plugs.

There's a fee for AD license transfer (US $4). You have to pay it if you're not the original buyer of the plugin.

[Endor-8o8]

I'm just hoping these ideas are more to act as deterrants, something Andy can use against user accounts he suspects are being abused... and that a normal, honest customer likes me gets the ''im just being nice'' treatment should the time ever come that I need support re:licensing/auth counts.

I prefer the no DRM/no transfer fees approach a company like Audio Damage does, but I don't blame Andy for not wanting to go down that road as I'm sure their stuff is just pirated left and right, not to mention the huge secondhand market for AD plugs.

There's a fee for AD license transfer (US $4). You have to pay it if you're not the original buyer of the plugin.

[masterhiggins]

I'm just hoping these ideas are more to act as deterrants, something Andy can use against user accounts he suspects are being abused... and that a normal, honest customer likes me gets the ''im just being nice'' treatment should the time ever come that I need support re:licensing/auth counts.

I prefer the no DRM/no transfer fees approach a company like Audio Damage does, but I don't blame Andy for not wanting to go down that road as I'm sure their stuff is just pirated left and right, not to mention the huge secondhand market for AD plugs.

There's a fee for AD license transfer (US $4). You have to pay it if you're not the original buyer of the plugin.

I think they're more concerned with the fact that it's $30, and the auths don't reset on top of that. I would rather not allow license transfers and keep the serial number or go to elicenser. Online c/r is by far the worst cp since NI used cd-rom challenge.

[lachrimae]

It's a shame that pirating had created such an environment where a paying customer like me won't even consider purchasing from such a good developer due to the licensing mechanism and policies. I demand more freedom from my purchases and I can understand why Andy demands more for his hard work. Neither side is willing to budge on their stance which means the pirates win and the good people lose. Such is life I guess...