Cytomic "The Drop" Resonant Filter

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The Drop

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Echoes in the Attic wrote:
Mace404 wrote:You can turn the self oscillating off with the 'safe' button.
Yes I know, thanks. I should have been more clear. I want to still allow the resonance to get that high, like in an sh-101, but I don't want it to be heard in between the notes. I suppose I could put a gain device after the filter with its own envelope in bitwig, which I think would mimic a typical synth structure. I figured I'd use the amp envelope of the source (like Omnisphere for example) but I guess it's not usual to have the amp envelope before a filter. So I could do it with bitwig modulators.

But yeah just wondering if there's a better way to do it within the drop itself. Maybe an envelope on the post gain? Then maybe the strategy would be to have the source release be longer than you set the post release and that would work out. Hoping some experienced users can comment on how they typically set this up to act like your typical mono synth.
You can use the envelopes triggered manually via automate, or route midi to them using the same midi you use for the synth. Modulate the POST volume using the envelope by clicking on the POST button in the modulation section, and then dragging upwards to full on the ENV1 or ENV2 modulation depths. For midi triggering make sure the MIDI power is on, and set the envelope source to MIDI. You can also easily automate the TRIG button on either of the envelopes to achieve the same thing.
The Glue, The Drop - www.cytomic.com

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andy-cytomic wrote:
Echoes in the Attic wrote:
Mace404 wrote:You can turn the self oscillating off with the 'safe' button.
Yes I know, thanks. I should have been more clear. I want to still allow the resonance to get that high, like in an sh-101, but I don't want it to be heard in between the notes. I suppose I could put a gain device after the filter with its own envelope in bitwig, which I think would mimic a typical synth structure. I figured I'd use the amp envelope of the source (like Omnisphere for example) but I guess it's not usual to have the amp envelope before a filter. So I could do it with bitwig modulators.

But yeah just wondering if there's a better way to do it within the drop itself. Maybe an envelope on the post gain? Then maybe the strategy would be to have the source release be longer than you set the post release and that would work out. Hoping some experienced users can comment on how they typically set this up to act like your typical mono synth.
You can use the envelopes triggered manually via automate, or route midi to them using the same midi you use for the synth. Modulate the POST volume using the envelope by clicking on the POST button in the modulation section, and then dragging upwards to full on the ENV1 or ENV2 modulation depths. For midi triggering make sure the MIDI power is on, and set the envelope source to MIDI. You can also easily automate the TRIG button on either of the envelopes to achieve the same thing.
Cool, I will try all this thanks. It sounds like putting an envelope on the post is the way to go. I may use the bitwig built in envelopes on post rather than the drop envelopes because they are full ADSR, but should have a similar effect. I think I just needed to conceptualize in my head how a typical analog synth would be set up and I hadn't quite thought about the fact that the amp envelope always comes after the filter and it's envelope so there would never be an open filter envelope after the sound had released (which would create the pure resonance without the source), which is key I think to emulating a synth architecture.

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Echoes in the Attic wrote: Cool, I will try all this thanks. It sounds like putting an envelope on the post is the way to go. I may use the bitwig built in envelopes on post rather than the drop envelopes because they are full ADSR, but should have a similar effect. I think I just needed to conceptualize in my head how a typical analog synth would be set up and I hadn't quite thought about the fact that the amp envelope always comes after the filter and it's envelope so there would never be an open filter envelope after the sound had released (which would create the pure resonance without the source), which is key I think to emulating a synth architecture.
The envelopes in The Drop are based on the ones in the Moog Tarus, so they are very dynamic and smooth, but they aren't ADSRs. You can get an ADSR type behaviuor by using two envelopes, the first in TRIG mode, and the second in GATE mode. You can then adjust the depth of each envelope to form the height of the initial AD satag using the TRIG mode envelope, and the level of the sustain anfd the release time using the GATE envelope. This will give you the best sounding results as both envelopes are updated at "audio rate", rather than only once every block like you'll get using automation via an external envelope.

Another method is to use expert sleepers silent way, or motu volta, and route an envelope generator to the SC input of The Drop, which you can then map via the FM section to the pre, post, lp/hp freq or lp/hp res, or shift. This way you can add any number of extra modulators and they are all updated at audio rate for the smoothest sound.
The Glue, The Drop - www.cytomic.com

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Thanks for the tips. I have to admit though I don't really know what benefit it is to have the envelopes be processed at audio rate. The bitwig envelopes seem to work pretty well and you can assign them to any parameter in a plugin. But maybe I'll compare to see what I'm missing. Are they just able to be snappier?

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Echoes in the Attic wrote:Thanks for the tips. I have to admit though I don't really know what benefit it is to have the envelopes be processed at audio rate. The bitwig envelopes seem to work pretty well and you can assign them to any parameter in a plugin. But maybe I'll compare to see what I'm missing. Are they just able to be snappier?
You're welcome! It sounds like you're understanding what is going on pretty well now :) You will be able to get faster but still have smooth transitions with the inbuilt envelopes, so they'll be snappier.

There is a low pass filter on the POST knob to smooth jumps in the control signal, which is calculated per sub block (maximum of 1.5 mS or 64 samples at 44.1 khz), and then this filtered signal is linearly interpolated (a straight line is used to join the end points) to generate an amplitude level per sample to adjust the gain of the signal filter. Both of these levels of smoothing slow down the transitions so when you move or automate the POST knob you don't get "zipper noise" from the heavily stepped per block updates to the knob position.
The Glue, The Drop - www.cytomic.com

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the Drop has become one of my favorite plugins and I play guitar. Has very good filters and if I could get full pitch shifting hell that would be incredible. Has a shift but maybe not like full pitch shifting signal or am I missing anything?

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acousticglue wrote:the Drop has become one of my favorite plugins and I play guitar. Has very good filters and if I could get full pitch shifting hell that would be incredible. Has a shift but maybe not like full pitch shifting signal or am I missing anything?
Do you mean tracking the pitch of the input signal? If so then the answer is no. The shift knob moves both the HP and LP together so you can make a band pass filter.

There are plenty of Bode frequency shifting plugins out there, and I recommend Echobode by Sonic Charge if you want one of those.
The Glue, The Drop - www.cytomic.com

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Thanks and I use Pitchproof when needed.

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Want to be a pro at making wobble basslines using The Drop? Check out this new video!

https://youtu.be/tSbjt5UJDxo

It's the first in a series of videos on using Cytomic products for various productions tasks. I'll also do some more straight up intro / feature rundown vids :)
The Glue, The Drop - www.cytomic.com

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Hi Andy,
andy-cytomic wrote:Want to be a pro at making wobble basslines using The Drop? Check out this new video!

https://youtu.be/tSbjt5UJDxo
having the visuals with the acoustic results in this detail is a fantastic aid. These thorough tutorials will be v e r y helpful.

:clap: :clap: :clap:

Thank you very much.

PS 1: don't forget to link them in the corresponding plugin section(s) on cytomic.com
PS 2: listening to your voice and English is a joy


Cheers,
LiteOn

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LiteOn wrote:Hi Andy,

having the visuals with the acoustic results in this detail is a fantastic aid. These thorough tutorials will be v e r y helpful.

:clap: :clap: :clap:

Thank you very much.

PS 1: don't forget to link them in the corresponding plugin section(s) on cytomic.com
PS 2: listening to your voice and English is a joy

Cheers,
LiteOn
Thanks for the feedback, it took a while to do so it's great to hear the effort is worth it! How did you find the pace of the video? This is my first serious attempt at writing a script and demostrating some features in a song context, so I am ready for all suggestions and hope to improve with each one I do.

I'm in the progress updating the web page to add some extra sections to contain the videos and also some big screenshots/graphics for feature callouts on each product page :)
The Glue, The Drop - www.cytomic.com

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andy-cytomic wrote:How did you find the pace of the video? This is my first serious attempt at writing a script and demostrating some features in a song context, so I am ready for all suggestions and hope to improve with each one I do.
For me it's good. I prefer to get some introduction and context information. Some sequences might could be a bit shorter, but that's something which will improve automatically with every new video anyhow.

Two thoughts
- The first plugin I see is Massive. :wink: So, where it makes sense you could give a short "abstract/summary" at the very beginning, quickly flying over the plugin UI to show what functional sections will be covered. Then you could turn to the comprehensive stuff
- I would add a plugin screenshot to every static section header/title.

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LiteOn wrote:For me it's good. I prefer to get some introduction and context information. Some sequences might could be a bit shorter, but that's something which will improve automatically with every new video anyhow.

Two thoughts
- The first plugin I see is Massive. :wink: So, where it makes sense you could give a short "abstract/summary" at the very beginning, quickly flying over the plugin UI to show what functional sections will be covered. Then you could turn to the comprehensive stuff
- I would add a plugin screenshot to every static section header/title.
Very good points, thanks for the feedback! I'll add an Overview section where you see The Drop first and say what we'll cover in the video as an intro / overview.
The Glue, The Drop - www.cytomic.com

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Good production quality though :)
Amazon: why not use an alternative

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VariKusBrainZ wrote:Good production quality though :)
Thanks! After being a bit daunted it was pretty fun getting the final edit together. I've got a good workflow organised now, and I'm looking forward to doing a few more. I want to do a general overview video that breaks down each section of The Drop but doesn't dive too deep.

All suggestions for topics to cover in future videos welcomed :)
The Glue, The Drop - www.cytomic.com

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