Cytomic "The Drop" Resonant Filter

[meloco_go]

I did get involved in a forum shootout between the glue/hardware/alexb nebula emulation, and heard your website demo. My conclusion was while the glue did handle the dynamics well, it didn't have the 'dimension' of the hardware. It was flat, the hardware was alive and 3d. It is this extra dimension that is missing in all emulations other than Nebula. Nebula could not actually do the dynamics properly in this example, it emulated the 'dimension' but f***ed up the actual dynamics part. We need both.

Using Nebula without GR alongside the Glue does very lovely things=)
Apparently the Glue does not have nonlinearities in the main audio path, maybe V2 with full-blown modelling in future?

[bmanic]

But don't take my word for it, please go ahead and ask the Nebula guys themselves how they feel the volterra kernel black box method stacks up to a full non-linear analog model like The Glue, or the UAD Massive Passive EQ. In limited situations I can see the usefulness of the volterra kernel or other dynamic kernel approaches, but I am more interested in reproducing the full range of behaviour of analog circuits.

I've used both versions of the massive passive hardware (the normal version and the mastering version), I've demoed the UAD massive passive, I recently played with the Softube Massive Passive (the one Native Instrument sells) and I have partially sampled a massive passive on my own but decided to purchase the Analogueinthebox.com Mammoth (massive passive) library for nebula instead (because sampling something like the massive passive is a ridiculously long endeavor!), so I have quite a good range of experience in this area.

Let me say right off the bat that the Nebula version, at moderate settings, is BY FAR the best sounding of the bunch when it comes to how close it behaves to the hardware, at least in my opinion. Keep in mind that in a mastering setting, where I've used the massive passive, one strives to find it's sweet spot. It can get a bit nasty quite quickly with too hot signals.

The second best one in my opinion was the softube model. You just need to make sure it isn't driven too hard or it gets into trouble. -18 to -12 dB average levels and peaks below 0dBFS works well but if you go past 0dBFS (easy to do in 32bit float hosts and such) it can get very grainy, very fast and to my ear that distortion doesn't sound very authentic.

UAD model was ok I guess but it just doesn't sound like the massive passive units I've used. It was just TOO clean and sterile in a weird way. Perhaps they modeled it on a manley "golden unit" or something, which I don't fancy the sound of?

So, what I'm slowly getting at here is: It is very admirable that people try to go for the fully emulated analogue model. That IS the future. But, currently we are in the same dilemma that physically modeled pianos, strings and horns are. They just don't cut it yet when compared to good samples. There's something slightly "wrong" with them. A weird, sterile, plasticky sound. Sure, they can perform scenarios and situations that can not be done with samples but in most normal performances, within simple parameters, they just don't cut it yet.

Perhaps this is the missing "3D" of plugins? I don't know. I just know that to my ears Nebula still sounds by far the most authentic when keeping within parameters. Things just sound "real" when they pass through a few nebula instances, even when they were completely digitally created from a VSTi. This "realness" is slowly happening in emulations like the ones from UA and Softube but we're not quite there yet in my opinion. We're extremely close though.

Cheers!

[meloco_go]

I don't know. I just know that to my ears Nebula still sounds by far the most authentic when keeping within parameters. Things just sound "real" when they pass through a few nebula instances, even when they were completely digitally created from a VSTi.

True from my experience as well. There was one insteresting thing, I stumbled on an interesting web-page where authors matched Neve EQ with some simple digital EQ plugin. They managed to get digital version to something like -40dB difference and it did sound close. I loaded files into Reaper and used Neve program from Nebula trying to match the settings and I couldn't get that close to original hardware as they did. BUT IT ACTUALLY SOUNDED CLOSER.
Now, I'm very impressed with the Drop. There is some movement and depth in a way it affects the sound, so I'm really looking forward to what Cytomic could achieve with EQ.

BTW here's the page http://www.tangible-technology.com/musi ... e1064.html

[realmarco]

speaking of Hysteresis...could u imagine the hysteresis on a noise-gate

[Mercado_Negro]

As others have said here, when you equalize with nebula it sounds nothing like software, the sound is "alive".

The only software equalizer I have never heard in my life is the Algorithmix Blue EQ. With that in mind, I can tell you with all certainty that none of the current options touches Nebula, even those which claim "analog curves", "non-liniarities" and "circuit modeling". I've been looking for an EQ to replace Nebula for years (becuause the workflow is a bit tiresome), and I've just had to live with decent options (of course, they sound good but nothing like it).

I think you'd have to try it for yourself and hear what we're saying here. Nebula can't handle compression, it dies when you push it BUT if you work at regular levels like -18dB or -12dB, you'll be seriously impressed by the way it behaves and reacts.

To me, Nebula is still the king of software equalizers. I have all my faith on you as I said in that e-mail years ago when we talked about equalizers

(I've heard the UAD Massive Passive and my sentiments are with bmanic).

[camsr]

As others have said here, when you equalize with nebula it sounds nothing like software, the sound is "alive".

The only software equalizer I have never heard in my life is the Algorithmix Blue EQ. With that in mind, I can tell you with all certainty that none of the current options touches Nebula, even those which claim "analog curves", "non-liniarities" and "circuit modeling". I've been looking for an EQ to replace Nebula for years (becuause the workflow is a bit tiresome), and I've just had to live with decent options (of course, they sound good but nothing like it).

I think you'd have to try it for yourself and hear what we're saying here. Nebula can't handle compression, it dies when you push it BUT if you work at regular levels like -18dB or -12dB, you'll be seriously impressed by the way it behaves and reacts.

To me, Nebula is still the king of software equalizers. I have all my faith on you as I said in that e-mail years ago when we talked about equalizers

(I've heard the UAD Massive Passive and my sentiments are with bmanic).

I think you are being a bit harsh on software EQ. Most "circuit modeled" EQs don't simulate the non linearity, and the ones that do, might not do it convincingly enough. But compared to bog standard digital EQ, most do a good job bringing in something different. In reality, there is not enough CPU power to really emulate the physical EQs, but one day there will be.

I appreciate your comments on Nebula. It only seems logical to assume that a discrete amount of transfer functions can do so much, but where and how it does it, it is done well. Mercado_Negro knows well what his plugins are doing

[K-Slash]

I think you are being a bit harsh on software EQ. Most "circuit modeled" EQs don't simulate the non linearity, and the ones that do, might not do it convincingly enough. But compared to bog standard digital EQ, most do a good job bringing in something different. In reality, there is not enough CPU power to really emulate the physical EQs, but one day there will be.

Exactly. That's average modeling.

Like all the 1073 emulations (including the UAD one) that have no vibe.

I'm patiently waiting for the day when API and Neve classic console equalizers would be modeled from A to Z, without forgetting B, C and all the others letters in the meantime.

You get the point .

That said, todays processor are capable of handling that "next-gen modeling". It's just that if it's really too much and that the last 10 or 5% are really that CPU heavy, they should give the ability to chose a standard and HQ mode.

Using the standard while mixing, and switching to HQ while exporting.

Or, if plugins like that would take, let's say, 15-20% or a Core i7, we can still print, like with real hardware. In general you dont have 10 1776, 10 LA-2A, 10 Neve 1073 in the studio, so you have so pass through them and print before continuing the mix, which could hekp people mix better in a way, and get back more feeling into the mixing stage, as they would'n't go change all the settings and so many tracks each 5 minutes after every listening .

[Nokenoku]

You're one of the few that I trust to be able to do a faithful analog model of high-end tube mastering gear.

Hmmm ... last time I checked, there wasn't even a single plugin out there, which faithfully modelled a single tube.

I'd definetly like to have proper tube saturation ITB. Don't need it in an EQ/Compressor/whatever-plugin. Just the tube as a single component saturator plugin would already be great.
If it actually sounds like a tube of course ...

[Funkybot's Evil Twin]

You're one of the few that I trust to be able to do a faithful analog model of high-end tube mastering gear.

Hmmm ... last time I checked, there wasn't even a single plugin out there, which faithfully modelled a single tube.

I'd definetly like to have proper tube saturation ITB. Don't need it in an EQ/Compressor/whatever-plugin. Just the tube as a single component saturator plugin would already be great.
If it actually sounds like a tube of course ...

This claims to be just that. It's supposed to kill CPU from what I heard though (never tried it myself):

http://wavearts.com/products/plugins/tube/

There was a good Tape Op review, but again, I never tried it, and you don't hear much about it here.

[K-Slash]

You're one of the few that I trust to be able to do a faithful analog model of high-end tube mastering gear.

Hmmm ... last time I checked, there wasn't even a single plugin out there, which faithfully modelled a single tube.

I'd definetly like to have proper tube saturation ITB. Don't need it in an EQ/Compressor/whatever-plugin. Just the tube as a single component saturator plugin would already be great.
If it actually sounds like a tube of course ...

Actually, I urge you to keep an eye on Studio Devil VTP-1 (Virtual Tube Preamp).

Coming sooner than later !

It features the second generation of tube modeling from Marc GALLO, and I have high hopes in him.

He just released the manual through Facebook (yeah, I know, cheesy marketing technique), and just by reading it, you "feel" that the man seems to have done the very best in the modeling process.

https://www.facebook.com/studiodevil/po ... 8981618718

[realmarco]

is it possible that Nebula is doing something else that just an emulation ?

like a distortion pedal with a noise gate in it. you think its just distortion and compared to other pedal u like the sound without knowing its doing something completely without your knowledge thinking its "better"

[meloco_go]

is it possible that Nebula is doing something else that just an emulation ?

like a distortion pedal with a noise gate in it. you think its just distortion and compared to other pedal u like the sound without knowing its doing something completely without your knowledge thinking its "better"

It is possible. For example Nebula tends to create buzzing distortion if you feed it with extreme subs. Which actually may make usual mix punchier. But I don't think this or anything else is what makes a difference when it comes to EQ or anything.

[ariston]

Now, I've been using the Drop for...


oops, sorry! My bad, I thought this was the Drop thread. Carry on.

[metrosonic]

Now, I've been using the Drop for...


oops, sorry! My bad, I thought this was the Drop thread. Carry on.

Just what we needed somebody to bring us back on track!

JM
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https://soundcloud.com/leftside-wobble

[cyphersuit]

what is the drop, i came here for nebula...