IK Multimedia's requirement to run DAW as administrator blocks access to user account presets

[Peter - IK Multimedia]

Yes, I expected a link to your beef too. Brian should help you out with that too - I didn't weigh in on that thread but I know your issue was taken seriously by others here (development, not Brian etc) so I hope he'll be weighing in with good news.

I knew also that my words would be twisted but I stand by the fact that going back and forth on this here will not get specific issues resolved and that they will get resolved with direct support. I don't care if you keep going back and forth, I'm just saying it won't really fix the issue. If there are verifiable issues that contradict what Obi relayed directly from our development folks then they will obviously be addressed (and I know for a fact that they are). So of course it is good to find kindred spirits if you have an issue but it is also best to ALSO report it directly and take offers of help from company reps that continue to offer what they can on top of that (which helps if you don't feel you are getting adequate support as you point out Ch00rd).

As always there is plenty of stoking of flames by those puzzlingly very interested after jettisoning our products among constructive discussion but that's to be expected. The people that want and need help will get it. I feel I've proved that it happens, that things change, that we listen, that people get things working, all because of the constructive discussion. I'm more interested in seeing people get help than in the typical drama, but it all works together in the online world. I'm just saying I'm weeding through it to get the people that want and need help the help they want and need.

[Peter - IK Multimedia]

Again: As I already mentioned, I have just tested this today: The bug still exists. And I also already mentioned why I stopped the correspondence in the second section of my last reply: My time is just to valuably to burn more of it, trying to get your plugin to run.

And in my interpretation the last answer was just denying the problem. If you are sure that most reader will see this in a different way, I encourage you to make the correspondence public.

Every issue is different. Our developers state the products work a certain way and they do for many. For those that don't experience this they work with the people that help with specific issues. Simple really. Your time seems too valuable to work with support again (and I apologize if your time before was considered wasted but we're trying again here and getting repeatedly rebuffed) as we've extended the hand here, but not too valuable to continue debating the worthiness of your time and your ceasing to use our plugins here. I find that interesting. Fascinating, even.

Edit - And the only way to find out if there is a true issue with what dev's findings and statements are vs the experience of users under whichever conditions is to work directly with us. That's ALL I'm trying to really say here. You can "prove that IK was wrong" in your eyes on a forum all day but it won't solve an issue. You CAN grasp a helping hand and work constructively with a company to figure out an issue and get it working and be happy. Seems like a win to me for everybody.

[AC222]

Hi Peter. Thank you for your professionalism here. I haven't read your whole post yet and will do so but I am glad that we are being heard at least.

I am finding the best "workaround" to be to run a task scheduler for the DAW so that it opens as administrator without the UAC prompt. I'd say workaround and not solution because it is not perfect and the task scheduler only runs so many times before you have to do it again. It is a clumsy workaround to say the least but that's what I have found best so far. I don't think anybody should have to disable the UAC altogether because some people are quite concerned about security and the piece of mind it offers, especially if no other programs other than IK seem to have this recurring issue in recording software.

I'm glad that it can be acknowledged that this is something that should be fixed. Because I don't like to see support from anyone taking the position that oh well a few people have this issue and its no big deal. Just turn off UAC. That kind of an attitude would convey that what is important to many customers is not important to the company providing the product or service.

In the last ticket I filled, the tech specialist did note that they will take these issues into consideration with future updates and I sincerely hope that is the case.

But yes this is a lingering issue and glad to see that IK is listening. Time will tell how this can be resolved going forward.

[AC222]

Peter, please read my post (or check e.g. http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=122733): It is not true that the "Run as admin" problem only appears on your 'legacy products'. I was curious and just checked if your team have maybe fixed this in the last 22 month since i reported to probem and just installed your current version of the 670 singleton and run into exactly the same problem i described in the tickt #801629. You can't insert the 670 plugin in a host (tested with Reaper) that is launched from a normal user account (without admin rights). Or to be more exactly, already the scan of the plugin fails. You must launch Reaper via "Run with admin". And as i already cited in my last post, your support acknowledge first the bug.

Klinke is right. IT is not true that Run as Admin is a legacy only problem.

[Klinke]

Your time seems too valuable to work with support again (and I apologize if your time before was considered wasted but we're trying again here and getting repeatedly rebuffed) as we've extended the hand here, but not too valuable to continue debating the worthiness of your time and your ceasing to use our plugins here. I find that interesting. Fascinating, even.

First: Especially Obik's reactions in the Reaper forum annoyed me enough that i decided not to keep my mouth when in comes to your products. I don't see my time wasted when i warn other people and correct statements. Second: Right now I have a free week and therefore more time then usually. So...

And the only way to find out if there is a true issue with what dev's findings and statements are vs the experience of users under whichever conditions is to work directly with us.

The conditions are simple and reproducable: Create a Win7 (64bit) Standard User Account (not a Admin account). Switch to this account, install Reaper (32bit) and only the 670 compressor in it's actual version 3.5.1. Launch Reaper (as standard user, not via "Run as admin"), set the VST path and see the Error messages pop up while Reaper is scanning the plugins. In the case that your support need additional infos, they can reopen the ticket or contact me via a different channel.

You can "prove that IK was wrong" in your eyes on a forum all day but it won't solve an issue. You CAN grasp a helping hand and work constructively with a company to figure out an issue and get it working and be happy. Seems like a win to me for everybody.

To recap the helping hand O got till yet from your support: First, they say, "Sorry, you must run Reaper as admin". After I told them that this workaround is not an option, they told gave that this is not necessary with the newest versions. After I have insisted that I install the newest version, I got a long instruction that ended with: "Now reinstall
and ONLY set to run as admin on the reaper icon." And the final correspondence:
"Hi, again, i don't want to run Reaper as admin, because alot of the
other plugins will then tell me, that they are not registered and
must be activated. My simple question was: Can your product be used
as VST-plugin without administrator rights ("run as admin")? Yes or
no. If yes: How? A solution that end with "set to run as admin on the
reaper icon" isn't a solution for this issue. If no: Are you working
on this issue?" And i got only this answer:
"Sorry about the delay, you can run reaper without admin. It should work, I am using TR in reaper 4 now. See PIC. I am using reaper 32 bit, but the 64 bit should work also."

Why should I hope that I will get an better answer when I asked again how this should be possible? And why should I believe that your support team really got the 670 running without admin rights, when I got two times before the acknowledgement that this is not possible (the second time via the instruction to set the reaper icon to "run as admin")?

[Ch00rD]

Yes, I expected a link to your beef too. Brian should help you out with that too - I didn't weigh in on that thread but I know your issue was taken seriously by others here (development, not Brian etc) so I hope he'll be weighing in with good news.

I knew also that my words would be twisted but I stand by the fact that going back and forth on this here will not get specific issues resolved and that they will get resolved with direct support. I don't care if you keep going back and forth, I'm just saying it won't really fix the issue. If there are verifiable issues that contradict what Obi relayed directly from our development folks then they will obviously be addressed (and I know for a fact that they are). So of course it is good to find kindred spirits if you have an issue but it is also best to ALSO report it directly and take offers of help from company reps that continue to offer what they can on top of that (which helps if you don't feel you are getting adequate support as you point out Ch00rd).

As always there is plenty of stoking of flames by those puzzlingly very interested after jettisoning our products among constructive discussion but that's to be expected. The people that want and need help will get it. I feel I've proved that it happens, that things change, that we listen, that people get things working, all because of the constructive discussion. I'm more interested in seeing people get help than in the typical drama, but it all works together in the online world. I'm just saying I'm weeding through it to get the people that want and need help the help they want and need.

Good to hear that the developers are taking the issue seriously. I would have hoped they were already taking the issue seriously when I originally reported the issue, and I'm definitely not holding my breath waiting for a fix, but bug fixes are always appreciated, even when they come *very* late after first reporting them.

Thanks for the advise, but as I already pointed out, I already did report the issues directly and take offers of help from company reps. Where you are wrong, though, is that this certainly was not the best thing I could have done. The very best thing would have been not to buy any of IK Multimedia's stuff in the first place.

Fwiw, I also expected that my words would get twisted, as they have been in every single response by any IK Multimedia rep so far. Telling other potential customers about my personal experiences with IK Multimedia products has absolutely nothing to do with "find[ing] kindred spirits". By insinuating that I am twisting your words, stoking flames, and that it is puzzling why users like me would appear "very interested after jettisoning your products", you only show that you're more interested in discrediting valid and reasonable criticism as "typical drama" than in any sort of constructive discussion. Somehow, such "drama" indeed seems to be quite typical for IK Multimedia.

[Teksonik]

Ok so I've got my first Win 7 computer coming in a week or so after living comfortably on XP for years. So exactly what is the problem that people are having with IK software and run as administrator ?

TRacks CS will be one of the first pieces of software that I will install on the new machine it's that important to me so what can I do to avoid any issues ? Sorry but this whole run as administrator thing is a bit confusing to me since I've had little to no experience with Win 7......

[Klinke]

By default Win7 creates a single admin account and most users just working with this account. In this case, the IK products works without problem. They only arise in the case, that you add a standard user account and want to run your DAW using this account.

[Teksonik]

By default Win7 creates a single admin account and most users just working with this account. In this case, the IK products works without problem. They only arise in the case, that you add a standard user account and want to run your DAW using this account.

Ahhh I see. Thanks for clearing that up for me. I'll only have one account so I should be good to go............

[AC222]

By default Win7 creates a single admin account and most users just working with this account. In this case, the IK products works without problem. They only arise in the case, that you add a standard user account and want to run your DAW using this account.

Ahhh I see. Thanks for clearing that up for me. I'll only have one account so I should be good to go............

I have Windows 8. One account. Not good to go....

[Compyfox]

Let me get one thing straight - I have nothing against IKM. Else I wouldn't use their tools, especially not ARC. It's just that I have a problem with the up-front correspondence (at this forum for example), the arrogance, and the support that is constantly saying "it's not our fault!".


Once more:
- I have Win 7 Pro
- I have two accounts in admin mode, one called "Casual" and one "Studio". Win7 creates user folders as following: admin, casual, studio, users (for shared accounts and guests)
- my studio software is installed and registered in the "studio" account
- Cubase 7 runs the plugins without problems (both real time and rendering)
- Wavelab 7.x doesn't run the plugins without problems (rendering results in noise bursts every 10s, realtime works)

I contacted the support due to that. Both Steinberg and IKM.

Steinberg said that they can't reproduce the bug, since they don't have IKM plugins installed.

IKM instantly said "right click - run as admin". Funny enough, I didn't need to reactivate the plugins again, and the "render bug" was gone.


BUT... this brings up the problem with the other plugins. For example:
The Steinberg plugins are all installed in the studio/application data folder. If the host needs to access the admin/applications folder, it can't find user presets anymore, only the ones that are built into the VST/VSTi.



I use a sh*t-ton of plugins, I am an active beta for a lot of companies. However only IKM has this issue, and only with selected hosts (it seems).



Which brings me to the statement, that most recent version downloads do not have this issue. I can not confirm that. So both you (Peter) and ObiK stated something that is simply not true. I consider T-Racks CS (v4.0 is still in my account!) as fairly recent version, it was released after Windows 7 and about the same time Win8 was released. So I don't think that this is a Legacy Plugin issue.

Why?

I tried the ARC2 demo - no issues (granted, ARC doesn't need to render), ARC1 - no issues. AT3 CS - no issues in Cubase (didn't test Wavelab so far, it's no mastering tool). T-Racks 3 - v3 worked in both WL and Cubase. T-Racks 4 - CS - works in Cubase, has the render bug in WL7. I don't have any of your (IKM's) synths, so I can't tell anything about that.



Maybe it is(!) a Wavelab issue, but WL7 won't be maintenanced anymore, and WL8 isn't out yet. Then again, I heard people talking about problems with IKM in Logic, Reaper, Live, etc.

So saying it's a host issue, is also a bold statement.



Again, I am not peeing on anyone's turf here. I just want working tools - tools I paid hard earned cash for. Which is why I consulted the support in the first place. But the answer by the support is unsatisfying, and your comments (Peter and ObiK once more) contradicting.


Could we now please on focusing solving this issue rather than debating who the funk is right or has the bigger e-penix?

If I'd buy hardware, I also expect it to work, or I live with certain setbacks (that do not affect my other tools). But this is no setback, this is an annoyance which also affects the rest of my tools.



Thanks!

[AusDisciple]

This might be an old thread but I have just installed Amplitube 3.14 on my Win8 rig and am having exactly the same issues. I can run Amplitube in REAPER if I run REAPER as admin but then all my other plugins show as unregistered which is obviously not satisfactory.
I sent IK a support ticket and hope they have a solution for this.

[hibidy]

Maybe I'm just batty, but is the reason some people don't have this because they kill the UAC dead when they install a new computer? I've never run into this.

[AusDisciple]

UAC off here. Still no workey.

[hibidy]

That sucks! Sorry I can't be of more help