Help me figure out the best "Drone" solution for myself...

[Doug1978]

there aren't any NEW sounds to make.

speak for yourself, you know. that may describe your ability or lack of imagination. the palette in sound is not limited, it's closer to infinitudes...

and they aren't harder to find, 'valhalla'! how can that be, with more and more tools for synthesis and effects? it's absurd.

Really? Sorry, but really?

Mmm... what's that in relation to Ron?

Please expand.

your apparently derivative approach (a better, open-minded understanding of leading artists/dub artists), vs. your pompous 'new to YOU' remarks, maybe? "open-minded" rather clashes with "tally this with ideas and concepts about the existing world which I live in". but of course 'open-minded understanding' is followed by 'of leading artists'.

the most telling thing there is "I can only succeed in taking this further if I pay attention to what people like _ do".

Ah, Jan my dear foe. We meet again...

Regarding your misreadings of my posts above, the truth is I don't mind your attempts to insult and rile me, because ultimately I'm entitled to my genuinely-held opinion, as unfashionable as that may be.
I honestly don't think there are any new sounds.

And I don't need to believe that there are any new sounds in order for me to continue making the new music for me that I enjoy.

Perhaps that line of argument is beyond you, your unnecessary insults ('pompous' for me; 'absurd' for Sean Costello's very reasonable viewpoint) and your misinterpretations above, Jan?

your pompous 'new to YOU' remarks

I never said 'new to YOU'.

I said 'new to us'. Can you see the clear difference in those two remarks, Jan? (Perhaps a better question is: do you want to see the clear difference...).

And if you're going to start throwing insults around and calling someone 'pompous' for no good reason, at least don't make up quotes, attribute it to that person and then insult them for your own made-up quote.
It doesn't make you look fair or accurate, does it?

Moreover, if anyone wants to take a look at your whole KVR history, they'll see numerous insults and misreadings by you of other people's posts - perhaps because you don't have the tolerance, willingness or patience to listen to other people's views?

On the other hand, most people here at KVR (like Sean and Ron, for instance) know how to pleasantly disagree with other people's views in a polite and respectful manner.


Ultimately despite what you (Jan) and I, and everyone else might write about here at KVR, these are just small words - they don't do the process of describing musical inspiration justice, and they're inferior compared to the mesmerising, revelatory power at our fingertips when we actually make music.
It puts your attempts to misquote, insult and rile people into perspective, Jan.


Good luck with your struggle to make music Mr Civil, no matter how uncivilly you try to express yourself here at KVR.




ps - excellent quote Shabdahbriah.

[rpc9943]

As much as I'd like to get out the popcorn please don't ruin this awesome thread with a pretty far out topic, take it to pm please. Let's please stick to drone creation not differing theories. It just looks freaking lame to have to read people's ideas when you originally click on the topic for drone workflows. Seriously. Thanks and besides you know I'm right. That was a joke. When I say new sounds I meant new atmospheres of emotion, expressed through the exploration of FX. And I'm not just talking here, I'm really making music and releasing it as I always have been.

So let's please stick to topic?

[Doug1978]

Cool (and sorry).

Good luck with making the drone music Ron.

[valhallasound]

Let's please stick to drone creation not differing theories. It just looks freaking lame to have to read people's ideas when you originally click on the topic for drone workflows.

Two thoughts:

- The history of drone music is pretty thick with theory. Most Western drone music came from some pretty profound philosophical stances, such as Fluxus or minimalism. Ambient music came from a radical rethinking of the role of music in society. Eno's big idea about ambient music wasn't about making slow drones, but rather the concept that making music that is designed to be in the background and not actively listened to was a valid artistic goal. Non-Western drone music has its own highly complicated set of musical theory, and/or is embedded in a religious/cultural framework that is quite detailed.

- Having said that, too much theory gets in the way of instinct. The original minimalist "Ambient" drones came from the higher echelons of radical art school theory, but this type of music has been around for long enough nowadays that it is part of our cultural fabric. You can read up on modal music and Fluxus and minimalism and Terry Riley and Steve Reich and Eno, or you could plug your guitar into a fuzzbox and delay and crank out the drones to your heart's content without ever learning the history. Both approaches are valid.

The nature of my job as a plugin developer means that I have to spend most of my time in my brain, thinking about various theories. DSP theories, musical theories, historical theories (what sort of gear was used when, how did it work), societal theory (what do people need for tools today? what tools would be useful in the future?), and so on. This analytical, theory based approach is useful for creating algorithms, but doesn't lend itself to making music much nowadays.

Back to the original topic...

I still think that the distortion->delay processing->distortion processing path is the best way for the original poster to get the sounds they are looking for. Having a tube amp playing at high volume, to me, is the quickest way to get these sort of sounds, and is the most satisfying to my own tastes, but this is the sort of solution that is highly dependent on the living situation.

Cascading different types of distortion is key. A tube-style overdrive (either a tube guitar amp or amp sim) is useful as the last step, but you want to have 1 or 2 different sounding fuzz stages in there as well. In this case, "fuzz" is defined as a distortion that doesn't have the low frequencies rolled off before the clipping stages, as you want to have that more "thuggish" sound that comes from low frequencies that are clipping. Certain fuzz boxes, such as the Fuzz Face and the original Rat, will kind of "choke" on the initial attack, which can be a VERY cool sound when fed into a second distortion unit. I'm not sure what distortion plugins simulate this, but using some sort of transient processing in front of a distortion plugin (where you duck the attacks of the notes) could be a good way of approximating this.

Sean Costello

[rpc9943]

1. Well,I wasn't referring to the culture of drones, I was talking about arguing some way off topic such as "Is there such thang as nu soundz?" It is awesome to see the context that drones fit in, and I had worked with drones before I had known anything about eno's ambient music in the late 90's by looping a sample (impulse tracker) to express my emotions at the time etc. So I have my own reasons I suppose

2.Took yr advice about fuzz pedals, except tried out some big muff presets in izotope trash, it sounds GREAT! I am still struggling to locate the sound you refer to though including the preamp tube. I have d16 redoptor, so how would that fit in? You're saying like line in > redoptor (tube)> shimmer > izotope fuzz emu ?

RonC

[valhallasound]

I am still struggling to locate the sound you refer to though including the preamp tube. I have d16 redoptor, so how would that fit in? You're saying like line in > redoptor (tube)> shimmer > izotope fuzz emu ?

Well, my experience with these sounds was based around real fuzz boxes and tube amps. So I'm not sure how these translate into various plugins.

I would try this:

line in->fuzz emu->shimmer (or some other reverb or delay effect)->tube emulator->speaker emulator

However, fuzzed reverb is a pretty cool sound as well, versus reverbed fuzz.

Sean Costello

[fateamenabletochange]

This is guitar into old Ibanez AD 80 Analog Delay footpedal, into Kingsley Jester tube preamp pedal on mild settings, into JMP solid/tube preamp on clean settings, thru MPX1 Lexicon on Ambience setting and into Soundcard then DAW, no effects to speak of.

Just a quick improvisation, with a synth part added afterwards.

Part of the fun is the feedback from the AD 80 is quite unpredictable, so it couldn't be the same again, and close to going off into a redline panic situation at any time.

The feedback droney thing starts up about a minute in.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/9504745/Beyond% ... finity.mp3

http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=342250

I love drones, they are all around us all the time, especially in the city.

[dreadnought]

Just a quick improvisation, with a synth part added afterwards.

Part of the fun is the feedback from the AD 80 is quite unpredictable, so it couldn't be the same again, and close to going off into a redline panic situation at any time.

The feedback droney thing starts up about a minute in.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/9504745/Beyond% ... finity.mp3

Sounds cool. I wonder if it sounds so good because of the completely out-of-the-box, analog signal path? Is that possible with plugins running a guitar signal straight into a computer?

@Sean: As a developer of reverbs/delays/whatever else, do you think that really lush and unpredictable sound is possible with either your stuff or other software? Or is there still a significant gap between what hardware and the best software emulations can do?

Dan

[fateamenabletochange]

Is that possible with plugins running a guitar signal straight into a computer?
Dan

I would say definitely yes, but is practically maybe a bit easier to have a few pedals before the DAW, and they wouldn't need to be totally analogue either. There are maybe some advantages to using some kind of tube in the chain, which will compress as it starts to distort.

I don't think it has to be either/or.

Zebra behaves quite unpredictably pretty much any time I fiddle with the knobs.
It doesn't sound that great to me, but it is fun.
I'm using what is at hand here, I had a bunch of hardware before I bought a computer and a computer music magazine 12 years ago.

[fateamenabletochange]

In fact, I'm keen to try out something like this.

A few Shimmer hints:

- Use the BigStereo mode, and run a whole bunch of instances of Shimmer in series. Set Feedback to 0.0 (i.e. no pitch shifting), Diffusion between 0.5 and 0.91, and the Size control at a different setting for each instance, somewhere between 0.5 and 1.0. The result will be a sound that fades in over several seconds, and decays away at a rate determined by the Diffusion setting. With Diffusion set to 0.618, the reverb will fade in and fade out with identical times, and will have the slowest fade in time. Higher Diffusion settings will produce somewhat shorter attack times, and much longer Decay times.

- Set the Pitch Mode to bypass, and turn up Feedback to 1.0, in order to produce an infinite reverb.

- Subtle use of modulation on each instance will produce richer sounds.

[deleted]

DELETED

[rpc9943]

That's gorgeous holy cow

[hma]

i would suggest using a modular host for chaining effects (my choice would be plogue bidule). that way you have a very good overview and possibilities for wierdest feedback loops. + use a lot modulated filters everywhere.

[rpc9943]

This is related, but a little off topic. I've noticed in bands such as "Boards of Canada" (Which I don't really like at all, but I like how they're treating the synth drones)

For example, I'm listening to:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=exnbfHq2P1c

and I'm hearing a soft synth pad, and on top of that, a little bit reduced sine osc (I could recreate that in minimonsta easily)... However, I'm noticing it all has this creamy cutoff over everything. What would be recommended for this? Are they running this through some kind of tube amp then cutoff with a bit of resonance? It's absolutely perfect, and I notice it's pretty much used on every drone sound they're using.

Also ENO update, I really disliked warm jets, it's too 70's musical for me (lol) but when I skipped over all of his albums, I finally fell in love with "Discreet music", mostly that first track... Nice, simple synth.

[valhallasound]

I've noticed in bands such as "Boards of Canada" (Which I don't really like at all

BLASPHEMY!!!!!!

For example, I'm listening to:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=exnbfHq2P1c

and I'm hearing a soft synth pad, and on top of that, a little bit reduced sine osc (I could recreate that in minimonsta easily)... However, I'm noticing it all has this creamy cutoff over everything. What would be recommended for this? Are they running this through some kind of tube amp then cutoff with a bit of resonance? It's absolutely perfect, and I notice it's pretty much used on every drone sound they're using.

It sounds like flute samples. Probably played on an older Akai sampler. There's something else looping in the background, with the attacks faded out so it is pretty much impossible to tell what the sound source is.

In general, BoC gets a LOT of mileage out of a Roland SH101 synth. This was a very common synth for 1990's Warp productions. Get one of those, and an MS20, and you are good to go. No software recommendations for duplicating the SH101 at this point.

Also ENO update, I really disliked warm jets, it's too 70's musical for me (lol)

but when I skipped over all of his albums, I finally fell in love with "Discreet music", mostly that first track... Nice, simple synth.

I think that was an APR2600. Long tape loop w/feedback, using 2 Revox reel-to-reels. There will be some subtle tape flutter and distorted feedback, but it will be subtle, as opposed to over the top "tape echo" effects. The loop was also played back at half the speed it was recorded with. You can do this trick in live, using the Re-Pitch Warp mode. Or, you can adjust the Pitch mode in the Looper.

Sean Costello