Slate Digital Virtual Tape Machine: Released

[Shy]

@ Fabrice and bmanic: sorry that I can hardly refer to what's been said right now (too many things to refer to and my mind is already too busy), but I'd like to refer to "tape machines sounding very different": I say no, when it comes to high-end tape machines and tape, they do not sound very different at all. The subtle differences are in the behaviors I mentioned, but overall, the general sound is spot-on when everything is properly calibrated. That's how it should be, and that's how it actually is.

Even the Telefunken M15 you mention merely has the usual lack of very low and very high frequencies, and otherwise sounds very similar to any other high-end tape machine AND the VTM plugin, except that it has the "widening" side-effect that VTM doesn't, and the more "airy" response when saturating, and the differences would be much more pronounced when the overdrive is more extreme, you start to get more of the "smearing" tape distortion that VTM doesn't have at all. Also, when I mentioned the harshness-taming side-effect, I wasn't referring to the high frequency region, but the overall kind-of attenuation of overly "resonant"/"sharp" sounds, which is not in a usual "eq"-like way.

bmanic: here's a simple comparison with this sample you posted some years ago. Original, M15 and VTM. Obviously it hardly sounds "different" at all. Had you used "lower quality" tape, more saturation, etc., the tape artifacts would have been more pronounced and so would the differences between it and the digital processor, but even this "subtle" setup is fairly demonstrative.

Instead of being stuck on "it's all different anyway", I think you should focus on the tape side-effects I'm sure you both know very well and I don't need to tell you about at all. VTM doesn't have distortion with that behavior, it doesn't do the seemingly subtle (not perceivable at pitch level) but very significant "shifting" that causes the usual pleasing stereo "widening" effect, and so on. Anyone who's heard enough heavily tape-dependent music (stuff I recently listened to includes music on Warp label, Boards of Canada, Vangelis' Blade Runner soundtrack, etc.) knows what "the tape sound" is about.

If you believe I'm wrong about whatever, I'm perfectly fine with that (I'm not here to argue at all). I can't "compete" in this case anyway. I like what the tape recording artifacts can do, but don't think for a moment that I have enough resources to waste on maintaining a high-end tape machine and recording to tape. I hate it like freaking hell and I just can't be bothered, just like I don't want to deal with some superior-sounding but unreliable and hardly tunable "vintage" synthesizers (even though I'm a synth "nut"). I know tape side-effects, the different sounding distortions, thresholds of distortion, amount and character of artifacts on different tapes, different frequency responses (some truly horrible for general purposes), noise affecting the "texture" of the recorded audio itself, etc. I mainly have memory and end-user recordings to rely on, and I can't provide proper comparisons. I'd love to (and I do when I have the original vs an emulation, in other cases), but in this case I can't really contribute, although I believe you don't really need it anyway.

I see it done often, but I don't have any urge to belittle the aural advantages of something I can't be bothered to use myself. I want the sound without the hassle. That's what the emulations are supposed to provide. They don't, and this one is a nice and usable special effect that's better than the others, but also not a proper emulation, no insult meant and with hope to get the real deal without the hassle some day. Only samples are truly useful in this kind of discussion as far as I see it, and since in this case I can't provide some myself (I don't want to rely on anyone), I think whatever I say would be more bothersome than useful, so oh-well. My posts are not for the sake of being negative, and if anyone (usually clueless people) thinks they are, I can just say I don't want to hear it in whichever of the creative variations of personal attacks that are common here.

[Kaboom75]

Even the UAD forum likes VTM . I would of thaught they would of used Tunguska AA tanks on it soon as it flew over but no.

[MFXxx]

The technicalities and the number of posts this thread is getting too complex.

My bit for what its worth. Bought it, got it and love it. Saying that I still like to mix and match with Roundtone and will still keep Nomads magento, Waves MPX and Nebula responses. Actually I will probably not use the Nebula Tape responses again.

Personally this is a smooth and nice sounding plugin.

So if my brain can;t comprehend the technical comparissons, my ears certainly appreciate the nuances, vibes and sound.

Peace

[Kingston]

[forum glitched, double post]

[Kingston]

I can't demo this interesting plugin due to the iLok requirement, but I will say this: the audio demos on the slate digital website are subtle!

Something is happening between them - barely on the threshold of audibility - but nothing particularly interesting. I guess that's what should happen with a high end tape machine - a transparent archival media. Don't want to color anything. Don't know why I would want that as a plugin either.

Then there's the "pushing" examples. These people probably don't quite know what the word 'pushing' means. You should be able to happily push past +3-6dB on the VU and the tape should say "more please!"

For the interesting tape/cassette effects I'm personally looking for, TB Reelbus is most authentic plugin I have heard.

Maybe those are possible with this new plugin as well, but can't hear it from the audio demos.

[kmonkey]

Not attacking you but it's obvious you don't know how use Nebula.
Gain staging is important when using any & every plugin, it's calibrated for -18dbfs, a normal standard.

P.S. AlexB's new Tape programs have a saturation/ drive feature that works great.

Non taken but it's obvious that you don't know me for a second. And i actually do know how to gain stage and how to work with Nebula. Add to that that i am beta tester from Nebula start so please give me a break. And no i don't like AlexB stuff. AITB and signaltonoize releases are better for my usage. And even so when i tried AlexB stuff it did have nice effect but as with everything if you drive it to much it will fart like star wars Jabba..not like real tape..

It just happened that i piss on "any & every plugin need to be gain staged" statement and it is absolutely not true. I still can't decide are you being serious about this statement

I am guessing that some of you guys took to seriously what legendary Paul Frindle said over at gearslutz. Correct me if i am wrong but lately i saw his statement about gainstaging in plugins and how he said that people didn't understood him correctly and that he is actually biting himself for saying some things which people then twisted out of reasonable context..

If you want to torture yourself with these gain staging things when doing music with computer then go and knockyourself out.

I won't pretend that all of a sudden every plugin and plugin developers miraculously know and knewed in past that new age geekie users load ton of metering plugins in effort to make it perfectly -18 db and all of a sudden pretending to work like on hardware domain. You can stop right there. Even various host have various different scales. There isn't standard ATM for people which make host metering. I think i am going to puke...

While gain staging definitely have use especially in Nebula land i want to see improvement in real areas. I want better compression and distortion for Nebula. All these sort of subtle things and "hey in the long run you'll have great cumulative mix effect" can eat my panties

Sorry man. I love Nebula and use it daily, test it daily but it has it's own weakness. I won't pretend that it's perfect plugin since it is not..

[kmonkey]

I can't demo this interesting plugin due to the iLok requirement, but I will say this: the audio demos on the slate digital website are subtle!

Something is happening between them - barely on the threshold of audibility - but nothing particularly interesting. I guess that's what should happen with a high end tape machine - a transparent archival media. Don't want to color anything. Don't know why I would want that as a plugin either.

Then there's the "pushing" examples. These people probably don't quite know what the word 'pushing' means. You should be able to happily push past +3-6dB on the VU and the tape should say "more please!"

For the interesting tape/cassette effects I'm personally looking for, TB Reelbus is most authentic plugin I have heard.

Maybe those are possible with this new plugin as well, but can't hear it from the audio demos.

Thanks for dropping in. Long time no hear from you I said something similar.

And in my opinion TB Reelbus and UAD Ampex are best tape plugins known to date.

VTM is also good but i really wouldn't paid 250$ (or 199$ with crossgrade voucher) for something which can be achieved for cheaper. This is just my opinion other may and will disagree.

If you want i mean if you have some sound files i could process them with VTM if you want. Drop me a PM.

edit: btw you can definitely drive VTM more in to not so subtle area and it will sound nice. Actually better then most native tape emulations.

[Nokenoku]

I can't demo this interesting plugin due to the iLok requirement, but I will say this: the audio demos on the slate digital website are subtle!

I'd say in the first mix it's very subtle. Not viable for showing off any effect.

The effect on the second mix is rather notable, but there's no comparison to the real tape. Also it doesn't impress me at all.
I think there could have been used much better material for showing the effect of that plugin. On the stuff it's used in the audio demos it doesn't really make a lot of sense.

I am guessing that some of you guys took to seriously what legendary Paul Frindle said over at gearslutz. Correct me if i am wrong but lately i saw his statement about gainstaging in plugins and how he said that people didn't understood him correctly and that he is actually biting himself for saying some things which people then twisted out of reasonable context.

Yeah ... I remember that thread.
Totally showed, that 90% of those "pros" over at GS don't have the slightest clue on how digital signal processing and 32bit floating point in modern DAWs works.

[Lenticular]

Not attacking you but it's obvious you don't know how use Nebula.
Gain staging is important when using any & every plugin, it's calibrated for -18dbfs, a normal standard.

P.S. AlexB's new Tape programs have a saturation/ drive feature that works great.

Non taken but it's obvious that you don't know me for a second. And i actually do know how to gain stage and how to work with Nebula. Add to that that i am beta tester from Nebula start so please give me a break. And no i don't like AlexB stuff. AITB and signaltonoize releases are better for my usage. And even so when i tried AlexB stuff it did have nice effect but as with everything if you drive it to much it will fart like star wars Jabba..not like real tape..

It just happened that i piss on "any & every plugin need to be gain staged" statement and it is absolutely not true. I still can't decide are you being serious about this statement

I am guessing that some of you guys took to seriously what legendary Paul Frindle said over at gearslutz. Correct me if i am wrong but lately i saw his statement about gainstaging in plugins and how he said that people didn't understood him correctly and that he is actually biting himself for saying some things which people then twisted out of reasonable context..

If you want to torture yourself with these gain staging things when doing music with computer then go and knockyourself out.

I won't pretend that all of a sudden every plugin and plugin developers miraculously know and knewed in past that new age geekie users load ton of metering plugins in effort to make it perfectly -18 db and all of a sudden pretending to work like on hardware domain. You can stop right there. Even various host have various different scales. There isn't standard ATM for people which make host metering. I think i am going to puke...

While gain staging definitely have use especially in Nebula land i want to see improvement in real areas. I want better compression and distortion for Nebula. All these sort of subtle things and "hey in the long run you'll have great cumulative mix effect" can eat my panties

Sorry man. I love Nebula and use it daily, test it daily but it has it's own weakness. I won't pretend that it's perfect plugin since it is not..

I really don't care if you beta'd Nebula or drop names or quotes from others.
From your post it sounded either like you didn't know what gain staging meant or you were just acting like a DQ.
From this lengthy & useless rantish reply I see now that it's the latter.

Clip inside a plug if you want, if it's a desired sound or effect that works on your material fine.

[Slate]

Hi folks. The first demo on the site is a mix printed to the 1/2" machine. While audio is subjective, I didn't find the effect all that subtle. The lows are thicker, the transients have more smack, the midrange and vocal is clearer, and there is a bit more front to back space. The real tape and the VTM version cancel out if lined up with only the WOW/FLUTTER left.

There are a lot of great tools for adding nonlinear artifacts to your music, but I think the VTM does something a bit different than the rest. I hope you get a chance to try it, and that you enjoy it on your mixes.

Cheers,
Steven

[ObsoleteAcc99]

wow! interesting to know that they null! HUH! (I do firmly believe in null tests. - science is science)

That said Steven, I demoed the plug in and i realised instantly it's true quality, but i find the cpu hit even on a modern I7 and the latency unacceptable. I for one for my ears or dance music material am not willing to sacrifice the need to rewire out of reason into another host for all this.

I actually very much *almost* like the mellowmuse ata equally, and that one uses a tenth of the cpu (1 or 2%) and has only 4 *samples* latency.

sorry about that but congrats on the release, it *is* the best tape emu currently available, that is true, but the costs are simply too high.

[ObsoleteAcc99]

I can't demo this interesting plugin due to the iLok requirement, but I will say this: the audio demos on the slate digital website are subtle!

Something is happening between them - barely on the threshold of audibility - but nothing particularly interesting. I guess that's what should happen with a high end tape machine - a transparent archival media. Don't want to color anything. Don't know why I would want that as a plugin either.

Then there's the "pushing" examples. These people probably don't quite know what the word 'pushing' means. You should be able to happily push past +3-6dB on the VU and the tape should say "more please!"

For the interesting tape/cassette effects I'm personally looking for, TB Reelbus is most authentic plugin I have heard.

Maybe those are possible with this new plugin as well, but can't hear it from the audio demos.

it's very UNSUBTLE on some drums just at default 15 ips settings. makes the bass end really heavy.. totally distorted my logitech pc speakers and sounded unusable.. i am sure it will sound great on my adams and sub but we also have to hear how things will translate to smaller systems and so many consumers are using logitech stuff for example.

I will say just put it on an electronic drum track, hit the 15 ips selector, and watch the bottom end boom out of control.

I would need to do too much workarounds but on 30ips it did sound quite lovely whilst still giving a nice CLEAN bump.

Dialing back on the 15 ips setting worked also but then it started sounding like the 30 at default lol.

[Slate]

Hi Ttoz, thanks for the comments. We'll work on improving the CPU hit this summer. As you can imagine, the algorithm is EXTREMELY complex, so it'll likely be a challenging process to reduce the consumption.

Because of the physics of how a tape machine works, there is always gonna be a little latency (just as there would be in the real machine), but perhaps that can be reduced a bit as well.. Fabrice would have to comment on this though.

Cheers,
Steven

[penguinfromdeep]

I will gladly take the high cpu consumption and latency, if the sound is this juicy. Anyway, I didn't find the cpu hit that bad on my i7 laptop ...

[ObsoleteAcc99]

on my 17 laptop 2,.2 ghz quad it is 12% of a thread (8 total threads) per instance.

the other "tape" plugins latency have a maximum of 1.5ms, i just checked them all.

almost 40 is very very high.

That said i just did another back to back with the mellowmuse and yours does open up the sound alot more, the mellowmuse irreversibly kind of dulls the high end, but sometimes that's what i need. The bottom end sounds the same to me, i can't distinguish them with my (average) ear.