2CAudio B2: Full Body. Maximum Attitude.

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cyphersuit wrote:i feel sorry for trolling, but i have a question, i got to ask. using blackhole reverb everything sounds supersmooth when tweaked live. Can't something like this be achieved in B2 too? I am talking about absolutely no pops, crackles, zipper noises.

Not "trolling" at all, it's a good question. In the current design of B2, some parameter space is not continuous by nature, so it is not possible with the current design to modulate smoothly across some of these parameters. Well technically, it is "possible" but it would involve running two instances of the plug-in behind the scenes and doing micro cross-fades between them to achieve smooth modulation. That would use twice as much CPU power (plus the CPU power to do the crossfades), and it may not really sound that good.

Some parameters can be smoothed more for better automation support. These include things like Balance, Cascade, Mix, Eq, Damp, and (maybe) Time. These would generally be most interesting to automate anyway. Improving these is on the wish list for the next audio/DSP update. Won't happen until we finish systems coding (getting close now), and then release our new product. But, yes, I would like to do it. Definitely. :!:

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Not really related to 2Caudio, as I did it before 2Caudio existed, but here is some of my earlier ambient, in the truest meaning of the word, work in case anyone is interested:

https://soundcloud.com/2caudio/sets/and ... er-ambient

I will release it on ITunes shortly. It's good "inner journey" kind of stuff... "traveling without moving". Do not opperate motor vehicales or heavy machinery while listening... :wink:

I will make some more stuff like this using 2Caudio tools shortly...

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So what reverb did you use before the you made the 2caudio stuff?

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How far away is mac breeze 64 mate? Like straight up realistic ETA. I won't hold you to it, just want to have a rough idea, to plan to save the $99, as i just spent what i had left on something :lol:

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Echoes in the Attic wrote:So what reverb did you use before the you made the 2caudio stuff?
"Galileo" uses Waves True Verb using the "millennium" factory preset (the biggest/most extreme--maybe edited a little IDK).

"Pranna" prob the same... Maybe some Ren Verb also so smaller spaces.

A lot of "Super-Tap" delay also. Prob more than the verbs actually...

And all the source material is custom sound-design from MetaSynth made with custom tunings and images, and mostly synthesized using pure additive methods with a thousand (or more) sine-waves. These kind of sounds generally come out of MetaSynth already very diffuse, so they already have strong "spatial impression".

After the 1997-2004 timeframe or so, I stared using IR1 for smaller verbs (whenever that came out), and Spin Audio M1/2 (which Denis made), and UA Dream Verb.

Things have gotten a lot better in the past 4 years, but in 2008 when we first made Aether 0.9.0/1.0.0 it was really WAY ahead of everything else... Since then 2Caudio took off, and I have been obessed about growing it to reach it's maximum potential. Only rarely do I get to actually sit down and really deeply use all the tools we develop. So in sense I'm jealous of all you guys! :) I'd love to take 6 months and make a few albums using our verbs these days. But alas I spend a lot of time reading mathematics and DSP papers and making test scripts of various dsp ideas these days. :shock:


Edit: I added "Persistence" to the list above. This one I made in 2008 using an early test version of what became Aether. And I just passed the whole pre-master mix through B2 to give some additional ambience to the rhythmic parts in the middle...
Last edited by Andrew Souter on Wed Apr 03, 2013 6:04 am, edited 1 time in total.

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TheoM wrote:How far away is mac breeze 64 mate? Like straight up realistic ETA. I won't hold you to it, just want to have a rough idea, to plan to save the $99, as i just spent what i had left on something :lol:

It is working here for us already. A few days and we could offer a public beta for customers. We are also working on AAX at the same time and B2 now loads as 64-bit AAX also.

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wow is there anything out there that can actually load a 64 bit wax? :shock:

anyway, don't hurry for 10 days at least, you said the 99 price will be valid for a week after it's official release yes> that'll do :grin:

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TheoM wrote:wow is there anything out there that can actually load a 64 bit wax? :shock:

These guys can!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... cMdUKWidPY#!


nice gated verb in there BTW... :D

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OK just a couple of problems with this build. 1) It didn't remember my user info so when I save a patch it is anonymous 2) When I save a patch it doesn't show straight away in the browser or menu, I need to reinitialise the plugin for it to show.

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Good discussion from GS:
Andrew: For "Width" & "Cross" sections: Are they On or Off with the button turned Blue?

I always thought blue meant on, but I've confused myself now and the manual doesn't say. "White" is on for everything else in the GUI & Red when off.

However, these only show blue or white...

All of the buttons like this should be thought of a "special features" buttons. When they are colored/"illuminated" the special feature is engaged and the "normal" behavior is suspended.

In several cases this "special feature" is "disabled" like with EQ for example. In other cases the "special feature" has a different function. If something gets disabled, I use the color red. If it just has a different function, then I use the engine color (blue or green).

It makes sense intellectually/logically if you think about it. But maybe I should have used some different kind of GUI element to differentiate cases between things that get disabled vs things that have alternative functionality? Then again, disabled controls have additional GUI indications so this is why I thought maybe it was not needed. (Manuel C would probably yell at me. :facepalm: )


So in summary:

colored = special feature is engaged or "on".

EQ special feature "on" = disabled
Damp special feature "on" = disabled
etc.
Width Special Feature "on" = phase invert one channel
Cross special feature "on" = flip input channels to that engine (including Cascade btw in the case of the B engine)


Regarding the sliders:

Think of "Width" as being (100%-correlation) between L and R. If Width is 0%, correlation is 100%. Therefore output is mono (assuming mono input). If Width is 100% correlation is zero (100%-100%= 0%). Therefore output is fully spatially diffuse, uncorrelated etc.

Now if Width Special Feature is engaged the phase of one channel is flipped. So correlation is negative. So If width is 0% correlation is -100%, or anti-phase (assuming mono input). If width is 100%, correlation is still zero, so flipping phase will not have any real effect. Therefore phase flip only has strong effect when width is small. Small width now = extreme width in these cases. The direction of width slider is reversed basically.

Cross slider 0% means no mixing between L and R channels. Cross slider 100% means equal mixing between channels 50/50. (how this actually occurs is more complicated, but that is a subtle point). If you want the Left input to be 25% in the right output you would keep Cross Special Feature off, and set Cross to 25%. If you wanted the Left input to be 75% in the Right side (i.e. a special use) you would turn on the Cross special feature button, and then you set the Cross slider to 25%. Get it?

Also when the reverb functions are completely disabled for the given engine using the Time special feature button on the right of the Time label, note that Cross is still available and so is the Width Special Feature button (phase invert). In this context it functions exactly like a Mid-Side stereo tool, like Waves S1, or Cubase Spatial Expander, etc. Cross will collapse image to center, giving Mid. If phase invert is one, it will "collapse to antiphase" giving Side. This can be a nice little trick. You can use one engine to do ONLY this for either A or B engine. A would apply the MS processing to input. B would apply it to output in this configuration. (Cascade and Balance should be 100% for this). By processing input you could apply B2 more or only to the mid or side of the input. By processing output you could force the wet signal to be very narrow or extremely wide for special effects. Get it?

B2's modular design is VERY, VERY powerful. As you explore it more you will be amazed at the diversity of what is possible...

BTW, we should talk about the dynamics section some time. (and well, actually I should write the docs for that... hm...)

(note: don't be afraid to use medium width settings: this does not really mean your verb will be excessively narrow or lack spatiousness. Medium width can in some cases increase the sense of depth.)

(Also note there are NO "magic settings" for any parameter. The entire range of settings can be useful in different contexts, and that is the beauty of having an algo verb. If some controll was really ALWAYS best at value 53.71454 or whatever magic number you like, then we would hard-code it into the alg and not offer a GUI element for it thereby making my OCD-guided task of making our GUIs look like math-based sci-fi art, a little easier. ) :D

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Host? OS? You are using build 184? It says 184 on the info page?
aMUSEd wrote:OK just a couple of problems with this build. 1) It didn't remember my user info so when I save a patch it is anonymous
I can not reproduce. Works perfectly for me.

aMUSEd wrote: 2) When I save a patch it doesn't show straight away in the browser or menu, I need to reinitialise the plugin for it to show.
I can not reproduce. Works perfectly for me.

How are you saving? Are you using "save preset to My Presets"? Have you taken the steps mentioned in the text file to reorganize the presets? You must not have any presets directly in /User/. They should go into /User/My Presets/ or /User/WhateverSubFolderYouWantToAdd/ etc...

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Part of some new presets I am making:

https://soundcloud.com/2caudio/b2-synth ... audio-b2-1

Short dry clip, then the wet clip. One instance of B2, nothing else.

We actually just increased the Max size substantially today to enable HUGE spaces and delay-based FX and hybrid delay/verb kind of things. This preset is an example.

(couldn't help but actuallly add something new audio-wise... all this system coding stuff is not real creative... ) :roll:

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Galbanum wrote:
TheoM wrote:wow is there anything out there that can actually load a 64 bit wax? :shock:

These guys can!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... cMdUKWidPY#!


nice gated verb in there BTW... :D

:grin:

Gotta love apple's auto correct in safari :lol:

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Galbanum wrote:Part of some new presets I am making:

https://soundcloud.com/2caudio/b2-synth ... audio-b2-1

Short dry clip, then the wet clip. One instance of B2, nothing else.

We actually just increased the Max size substantially today to enable HUGE spaces and delay-based FX and hybrid delay/verb kind of things. This preset is an example.

(couldn't help but actuallly add something new audio-wise... all this system coding stuff is not real creative... ) :roll:
This sounds amazing... Is this connected with time settings only, or new function? Delay mixed with reverb, that is old trick in production.

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xtrax wrote: This sounds amazing... Is this connected with time settings only, or new function? Delay mixed with reverb, that is old trick in production.
Thanks. Max size is now 625M at the moment! (as opposed to 256 in the current B2 and Aether and 75M in Breeze.) For us Americans (and Brits) that's about 2000 feet! This gives max delay length of almost 2 seconds!

The Roman Coliseum (one of the largest "non-partitioned" "enclosed" spaces in the world) has a maximum length of ~175M by comparison.

HUGE sizes are cool for delay-based effects and "granular" kind of things where you can get clusters of discrete echos interacting in complex ways.

Personally I think they can be great on synths and are reminiscent of the sounds of classic ambient works by the masters we all know and love.

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