Ok straight up Poll... Ik White VS Native instruments VCA2A

VST, AU, AAX, CLAP, etc. Plugin Virtual Effects Discussion
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Which of these would you buy for your limiting amp needs

IK White
37
45%
Ni VCA2A
45
55%
 
Total votes: 82

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Funkybot's Evil Twin wrote:I didn't mean IK got the distortion right...I meant IK didn't nail the "finer details" in those emulations, which you can't say of the Fairchild or Pultec, where they did emulate those finer details IMO.

Why would they "model the finer details" on the Fairchild and Pultec plugins but not the newer 1176 and LA2A plugins?

I think we are all buying into the marketing of how these plugins are made a little too much. IK could be using the same core compression algorithm over and over and just changing the shape of the compression curve and the attack/releae curves. And then changing the distortion a little. "derp we modeleed the hardware"

Who knows how they make these things. I'm assuming the picture they take of the geeky looking guy standing next to an 1176 with a oscilloscope hooked up too it has little or nothing to do with how the plugin actually gets made.

The point is none of us know, except for the guy who wrote the algorithm, who probably wrote it at his own home and emailed it to IK when he was done.

Just use your ears guys.
Has anybody ever really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?

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I didn't mean that they had the distortion modeled just right in either. To me, both are sort of a caricature of the original. It exaggerates the loudness and "warmth". However right or wrong that "warmth" is is for anyone to decide for themselves.

I've spent much time messing with the Black-76 in particular, wondering what was wrong with me that I couldn't set it up properly, it just didn't seem to work. Then I started comparing it to other models. The minute I loaded CLA-76, it was a revelation. That thing had so much punch - not just drive - that it's almost like the kick drum was punching its way out of my monitors.

There's just no way I can get that same amount of compression as I can with, say, CLA-76 or even Bomb Factory's old 76 clone. In fact, IK themselves recognized this after the initial release in a thread started by Steven Slate over at Gearslutz. Apparently there was something like an 18db difference in gain between the tested hardware and the Black-76, meaning that you had to push the signal non sense to get the compression to kick in. IK did alter that in a subsequent release, but to me, it's still not working as I would expect.

Second, the attack and release button are, imho, virtually useless, unless you are after some very mild compression.

I can get a nice chunk of attack with CLA even in all buttons mode - though the attack and release vary, it's not so much as to make the attack and release totally useless. You can feel the energy building up and bursting out, there's a sense of density to it.

The Black-76 invariably gives me the same tiny little peak of a transient and buries the rest in, uh, "warmth".

That's just my 2 cents. I know plenty of folks, many of which more knowledgable than I am, who are happy with the Black-76, so, whatever works for you.

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please, this is not an 1176 topic. Can we keep this TO the 1176 topic?

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fish

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TheoM wrote:please, this is not an 1176 topic. Can we keep this TO the 1176 topic?
Preserved :hihi: And thank you to TheoM too.........thank you!

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I'm kinda starting to dig on the NI LA-2A a little. Also, it's really nice on bass guitar!

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About to try it. What i am trying to find out is if there is an upgrade or crossgrade option to komplete from it. That would seal the deal when i can finally afford komplete, and means i could get my LA2A now as well as a dbx! Cool!

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TheoM wrote:About to try it. What i am trying to find out is if there is an upgrade or crossgrade option to komplete from it. That would seal the deal when i can finally afford komplete, and means i could get my LA2A now as well as a dbx! Cool!
Well, not to burst a bubble, but I really really don't think K9 is on the horizon. I think first, all these plugs will be updated first (like reflektor, SSL, etc) Then, I don't know if they have some new stuff cooking or not. Pretty mum.

So, yeah waiting......that's a good thing because you know they will be included, but I don't think K9 is any closer than Feb (hunch)....unless of course you mean K8, in which I typed to much to say nothing? :hihi:

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I meant K8.

But i checked and no these don't qualify for any crossgrades :(

That's why i will just hold off and buy K8 when i can afford it.

All i want is massive, kontakt and these. But add the prices, and it starts getting up there. I really will never use battery or any of the other stuff. I guess maybe the other option is komplete 8 normal non ultimate, and these as a separate purchase. that might work out well.

But then i'll be like "for $300 more look at the 200gb of stuff i could have had"

I am sure there would be some use for session strings pro, considering i am still looking for a string library for example.

I dunno, i have been really stuck on this for a while.

I am pretty sure that this La2A will be the one i want, maybe the key is to just spend $60 and get this one plugin rather than the bundle. But THEN i think, for $60 more i get three other plugins..

including an original 1176 emu!

SIGH!!

GRRRRR!!!

damn you NI!

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@midnight wrote:
Funkybot's Evil Twin wrote:I didn't mean IK got the distortion right...I meant IK didn't nail the "finer details" in those emulations, which you can't say of the Fairchild or Pultec, where they did emulate those finer details IMO.

Why would they "model the finer details" on the Fairchild and Pultec plugins but not the newer 1176 and LA2A plugins?
I have no idea. It's a question that's been asked many times and even acknowledged by IK.
@midnight wrote:I think we are all buying into the marketing of how these plugins are made a little too much. IK could be using the same core compression algorithm over and over and just changing the shape of the compression curve and the attack/releae curves. And then changing the distortion a little. "derp we modeleed the hardware"
Not the case. If you run the White 2A (trying to keep it on topic for Theo, same holds true for the Black 76 though) through the VST Plugin Analyzer, you'll see that it doesn't introduce any harmonics (when there's no compression taking place), crosstalk, or have any change on frequency response based on input/output gain settings. If you load their Fairchild in the same plugin analyzer and run those same tests, you'll see that harmonics are being added even when no compression takes place, that there's crosstalk going on, and that changing the input/output gain has a big change on the frequency response and distortion.

So this isn't "buying into marketing" there's a measurable difference in how well Fairchild and Pultec were modelled vs. the newer IK plugins. This is something you can test yourself. The only thing I can think of is that: 1) maybe they used different developers (they have more than one programmer) or 2) they made a conscious decision to simplify these models to either hit a target release date or decrease CPU consumption, or even 3) they didn't feel like modelling the distortion was all that important.

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hibidy wrote:I'm kinda starting to dig on the NI LA-2A a little. Also, it's really nice on bass guitar!
Makes sense. Bass guitar is the LA-2A's bread and butter. Got a sloppy bassist? I like doing peak reduction up to around 7-10db on the louder notes with the LA-2A to even things out. Sounds great.

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Theo, obvious question, but have/can you demoed these? If you prefer the sound of the NI version to the IK, then also like the 1176 and 160, then I'd say spend the extra $60 and get that. If you decide the IK version sounds/works better for you, and you're not impressed with the NI versions, then it's a no-brainer, save the extra $60 and buy the White 2A.

Otherwise, the thread will just go on as it has been and just make you nuts without making it any easier for you to come to a decision.

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Funkybot's Evil Twin wrote:
hibidy wrote:I'm kinda starting to dig on the NI LA-2A a little. Also, it's really nice on bass guitar!
Makes sense. Bass guitar is the LA-2A's bread and butter. Got a sloppy bassist? I like doing peak reduction up to around 7-10db on the louder notes with the LA-2A to even things out. Sounds great.
I know, but for some reason I've tried these before (la-2a's that is) and was pretty meh about it. I dunno. I guess it's kinda like this:

-I tried the "white" and didn't care for it. Bought the "black"
-I don't have and will likely not ever have UAD, so.....
-I'm not buying something that only works with sonar so never tried that.

And in that shuffle, it's just not been a comp I've tried/used/whatever. So, here I am. Gives me something to do :hihi:

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Funkybot's Evil Twin wrote:So this isn't "buying into marketing" there's a measurable difference in how well Fairchild and Pultec were modelled vs. the newer IK plugins.
Well the fact is nobody knows "how well any of them are modeled" except for the math wizard in his bedroom who probably emailed the algorithm to IK, before they slapped an IK Multimedia GUI on it and took a photo of "fred the janitor" standing next to an 1176.
Has anybody ever really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?

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So does anyone just think "yeah, they both have good points?" :hihi:

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